lowered suspension or not?

[atractaspis]

As I am looking at a few bikes now and getting closer to decide on which one will be mine

One problem I have is that even though I have read of many people with the same inseam as mine (30") that they can reach the ground ok, I can only reach it with the balls of my feet with the lowered seat... I am worried that eventually I will not find the lower seat comfortable for long rides and then I have no option for a comfortable seat that allows me to reach the ground. I am not wanting to spend a lot of money on putting a suspension in after I buy one (the bike is expensive enough).. so now I am wondering if I should only consider bikes that have a lowered suspension (very very rare to find so far!) or just deal with the standard suspension and hope I get used to it and if I need a more comfortable seat (I am planning on riding this baby a lot!) hope to find one that won't put me on my tippy toes.


Any experience or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I hope I am not clogging this forum up with too many questions without even having a bike yet

[deilenberger]

Not a problem.. they are good questions.

At a 30" inseam, you have 3" on me (on a tall day..) I do have a lowered suspension, but it's only lowered about 1.5".. any more then that and there simply isn't enough suspension travel to be comfortable on the bike.

The low seat actually is probably the best of the standard seats. The shape is different from the taller seats, and after around 2,000 miles or so - it breaks into your butt and isn't awful. Not super wonderful, but certainly tolerable. I had my low seat redone by Sargent, and that makes it even a bit better (and it looks MUCH better..)

I wouldn't restrict myself to a low suspension bike. Since many of us have replaced the stock suspension components - if you do so, there normally is no extra charge for shocks/springs that will lower the bike. That's ALL that BMW did actually, aside from making a slightly shorter centerstand and sidestand. I haven't found the need to obtain either of those, so I wouldn't consider them critical.

I assume you're balls of the foot with moto boots on? There are boots with thicker soles which will help get more of your foot down. If you can do both feet balls on the ground you should be fine, you can always lean the bike a bit to get either foot down flat when needed.

HTH,

[Las]

Have you checked the rear suspension preload setting on the bike (under the seat). My inseam is exactly 30" and I have the stock standard comfort seat and suspension on my 2012 r12r Classic. I can just about flatfoot both feet. A stock standard suspension with the preload at standard (halfway between hard and soft) is factory tuned for a single rider weighing 187 lbs, no pillion, no heavy luggage. I weigh 187 lbs, give or take and carry an oem hard top case semi filled with stuff- rainsuit, extra gloves, for rain, hairbrush, tire pressure gauge, micro rag and visor cleaner, ez pass mounted on the front part of the lid- it works and is out of sight) etc. my preload is perfect (for me) at the standard setting. If you are at or about (or under) 187lbs and are not at the track, you can safely and comfortably go a bit lower on the preload setting. The softer the setting, the lower the suspension, the more of your foot can touch the ground.

[Ol' Jeffers]

Rather than lower the suspension your first consideration IMHO should be a low seat.
BMW can supply three seat heights for the R1200R. My inseam is 30.5 inches and I
have a standard seat and standard suspension on my R1150R I can flat foot both feet.
It pees me right off when manufacturers seem to cater for riders who are 6ft.13 tall!
ALL of the KTMs are way too tall for li'l ol' me!! BMW is one of the very few makers
who cater for short-arses!

[atractaspis]

The low seat actually is probably the best of the standard seats. The shape is different from the taller seats, and after around 2,000 miles or so - it breaks into your butt and isn't awful. Not super wonderful, but certainly tolerable. I had my low seat redone by Sargent, and that makes it even a bit better (and it looks MUCH better..)

I assume you're balls of the foot with moto boots on? There are boots with thicker soles which will help get more of your foot down. If you can do both feet balls on the ground you should be fine, you can always lean the bike a bit to get either foot down flat when needed.

Thanks Don for all the insight... good to know about redoing the low seat is a possibility.. I was actually test riding with some hiking boots on .. So, I probably need to try it with some thicker soles. I think with the standard seat (I did try riding it that way) the seat was not just too high, but also way to wide for me.. obviously that made my legs "shorter" ..but it was also extremely uncomfortable for me.

Have you checked the rear suspension preload setting on the bike (under the seat). My inseam is exactly 30" and I have the stock standard comfort seat and suspension on my 2012 r12r Classic. I can just about flatfoot both feet. A stock standard suspension with the preload at standard (halfway between hard and soft) is factory tuned for a single rider weighing 187 lbs, no pillion, no heavy luggage. I weigh 187 lbs

I did check the suspension preload and it was already the 'softest' it could be.. but I think I know what the difference is between my 30" and yours.. I am about 60lbs lighter.. which brings up is an excellent point I hadn't thought about.. I have only test driven the r1200r bikes without any luggage on them... since the low seat already gets the balls of my feet down a little more weight might make it perfect for me! And I am planning on getting the saddle bags and on occasions use trunk luggage.

Rather than lower the suspension your first consideration IMHO should be a low seat.
BMW can supply three seat heights for the R1200R.

Thank's Ol' Jeffers ... that's exactly why I put this question up here.. I would rather not have to mess with the suspension... but when I test rode a few r1200r bikes that had a low seat I still felt like I didn't have enough grip on the ground with my feet. I am mostly concerned about needing to move the bike around while sitting on it, e.g. backing in or out of a parking spot, or having to back up at a stop light for some reasons ...like this jerk turning left while I am at a stop light and completely cutting into my lane while I am standing at a red light a few weeks ago.. I luckily realized quickly enough what an idiot he was and having a very low bike right now I was able to back up quickly enough to just barely get out of the way.. there was literally less than an inch between his car and me when he got in front of me...was glad then that I could back up my bike..

It pees me right off when manufacturers seem to cater for riders who are 6ft.13 tall!
ALL of the KTMs are way too tall for li'l ol' me!!

I agree!!!! I was originally thinking about a KTM...but I need a ladder to climb on and off of that thing! And I am from Austria and can attest that Austrians are not THAT tall!!

I think I will stick to looking for a standard suspension with a low seat.. get the seat redone like Don if needed and if I still don't like it I can always safe up some more money (BMW is out to bankrupt me! ) and get a different suspension...

[Woland]

It pees me right off when manufacturers seem to cater for riders who are 6ft.13 tall!

It's all a matter of perspective At 6'4" I'm mighty pissed that all road bikes seems to be built for riders 5' tall

[abronzetiger]

I think I will stick to looking for a standard suspension with a low seat.. get the seat redone like Don if needed and if I still don't like it I can always safe up some more money (BMW is out to bankrupt me! ) and get a different suspension...

I'm 5'9" with a 30-31" inseam and weigh 200lbs and I have an '08 with the normal suspension and a Sargent seat (using a 'low' seat pan)

I'm able to stand up out of the saddle at stops if I want to or, if I'm being lazy, I can put down one foot and the bike doesn't lean an awful lot.

I can back up without a lot of trouble on my seashell and dirt driveway, even in rain, and in parking lots it's pretty easy to maneuver.

And remember that when it comes to farkles: BMW stands for Bring My Wallet.

[KMalo]

I'm wondering how people determine the length of their inseam.

Is it the length identified on your favorite jeans/slacks?

Is it the measurement from your crotch to your ankle? Crotch to ground?

I consider my inseam to be 28/29" based on the identified length of my jeans and pants. I *think* that measurement is from the crotch to somewhere around the ankle. If so, a measurement from crotch to ground might be more like 30/31"

Just as the differences in body weight make differences in how well two people with the same inseam might be able to manage a bike at a stop, it might help clarify things if we understood which "inseam" measurement others are using.

Or not

Chuck

[MTBeemer]

I'm wondering how people determine the length of their inseam.

Is it the length identified on your favorite jeans/slacks?

Is it the measurement from your crotch to your ankle? Crotch to ground?

I consider my inseam to be 28/29" based on the identified length of my jeans and pants. I *think* that measurement is from the crotch to somewhere around the ankle. If so, a measurement from crotch to ground might be more like 30/31"

Just as the differences in body weight make differences in how well two people with the same inseam might be able to manage a bike at a stop, it might help clarify things if we understood which "inseam" measurement others are using.

Or not

Chuck

Well that's a good darn question there Chuck. I guess I always assumed it was the same number I use for my britches. But come to think of it I can flatfoot a bike with a seat height of 31 inches with my "30 inch inseam". Guess the extra length comes from that extra that protrudes from the bottom of my pants plus a boot sole and heel.

[David R]

If you read the manual, it says Handling will be affected on a lowered bike. You loose suspension travel. SO in my opinion, with 30" inseam, learn to deal with it if you can. My last bike was an RT which is Taller.

Love the roadster..

David

[atractaspis]

As I said I think now I will go with standard suspension..because of the many reason all of you mentioned... also because I realized that it's not just inseam but weight.. so once I add some saddle bags (with low seat) it might help me getting my feet more to the ground.

About measuring inseam length: I usually just measure from the ground up to the crotch (so from the ankle up I am even shorter..ha). But I think the problem here is not just the different ways different people measured their inseams, but different weights I think too.. and that's why so many people with the same inseam can't or can get their feet to the ground with the same seat height. At my 128 lbs and 30" inseam ..even if measured the same way ..someone with the same inseam but 180 lbs will reach the ground better than me.. so I just have to load up my bike with more things if I want to get further to the ground..ha .. and of course I will now look for boots with higher soles too.

Thanks for all the input on lowered suspension.. I haven't ridden one with low suspension to find out the handling difference..but it makes sense that there would be a difference...

I think all that's left now is to decide between the three bikes I saw now that had decent price tags (as decent as BMW can get I guess).. all with the same options.. two are 2013s, one blue , one light grey and one 2012 that is red...

color..the last decision now..

[Catchina]

color..the last decision now..

BLUE

[AncientMariner]

My first R was a Beautiful Blue 2010. (Definitely get the blue!!!) It was a standard chassis with the low seat. My 29" inseam (based on pants size) allowed the balls of both feet to touch down and a slight lean would allow me to flat foot one side. The seat was so comfortable, I believed that it was the optional comfort seat.

After that bike was totalled by a Vermont highway edge trap, I replaced it with a Black 2010 with the factory lowered chassis. Oh yes, I can flat foot both at once. The seat is actually not the same as the low seat on my standard bike. The first 8 - 9,000 miles were pure torture. (why didn't I swap out the seat from my wreck when I had the chance?) The seat is just now getting tolerable.

The lowered suspension does not do bumps very well - my body takes a real hammering.

To alleviate some knee problems, I installed a Suburban Machinery peg lowering kit and although it helps my knees a lot, I feel like the space between the pegs and the ground is too confining.

I still love the R, but as soon as I can wear out the susepnsion I'm going back to standard height.

Bruce

[atractaspis]

My first R was a Beautiful Blue 2010. (Definitely get the blue!!!) It was a standard chassis with the low seat. My 29" inseam (based on pants size) allowed the balls of both feet to touch down and a slight lean would allow me to flat foot one side. The seat was so comfortable, I believed that it was the optional comfort seat.

I realized that I probably did not ride with a low seat yet.. I looked up on the German side what the options are (they have a nice bike configurator on their site... which even includes an option of less horse power!) and I believe the seat I was told by one dealer to be the low seat was actually the sport seat...

Color.. I am still conflicted on color.. I need my favorite 3 colors next to each other in a show room apparently before I can make up my mind..or simply get the first one I see next and just finally get on it and ride it away..

After that bike was totalled by a Vermont highway edge trap, I replaced it with a Black 2010 with the factory lowered chassis. Oh yes, I can flat foot both at once. The seat is actually not the same as the low seat on my standard bike. The first 8 - 9,000 miles were pure torture. (why didn't I swap out the seat from my wreck when I had the chance?) The seat is just now getting tolerable.

The lowered suspension does not do bumps very well - my body takes a real hammering.

To alleviate some knee problems, I installed a Suburban Machinery peg lowering kit and although it helps my knees a lot, I feel like the space between the pegs and the ground is too confining.

I still love the R, but as soon as I can wear out the susepnsion I'm going back to standard height.

Bruce

thanks for sharing your experience with the lowered suspension, I am even more convinced now to get the standard suspension. I test rode a f650gs the other day with a lowered suspension.. what a fun bike!!!! Interestingly the lowered suspension is supposed to be the same height as an r12 with standard suspension plus low seat.. and I was extremely comfortable with my feet nearly flat on the ground on the f650gs with lowered suspension. If that is how it would be on an r12 with standard suspension and low seat, then it's the perfect height for me!

[AncientMariner]

atractaspis

the lowered suspension is supposed to be the same height as an r12 with standard suspension plus low seat..

I don't know who told you that, but I would be very leery... "Trust but verify"

Bruce

[atractaspis]

atractaspis

the lowered suspension is supposed to be the same height as an r12 with standard suspension plus low seat..

I don't know who told you that, but I would be very leery... "Trust but verify"

Bruce

I actually found that information on the BMW site under specifications for these bikes:

F650GS: 32.3" (820 mm), low seat: 31.1" (790 mm), lowered suspension: 30.1" (765 mm), comfort seat: 32.9" (835 mm)
R1200R: 31.5 inches (800 mm) low seat: 30.3 inches (770 mm), comfort seat: 31.5 inches (800 mm), high seat: 32.7 inches (830 mm), high comfort seat: 32.7 inches (830 mm), lowered suspension: 29.5 inches (750 mm)

so according to that information there is only a 0.2 inches difference (5mm) in height between a F650GS with lowered suspension and a R1200R standard suspension with low seat.

If that's true then I should fit perfectly on an R1200R with standard suspension and low seat..

The problem now is that I REALLY like the F650GS.. the R12 is still the bike I want to get..but one of these days after I am no longer broke from paying off the R12 I will probably also get a F650GS ... Test riding GS and R models has been VERY VERY dangerous to my financial health!

[MTBeemer]

I'd suggest trying to ride with the low seat a bit before you commit to it. I tried the low seat on an RT and it was terrible. To make a low seat all they seem to do is remove some padding. Creates a trough that you sit in without the ability to move around to ease your agony. I have a low seat that I took off my R and it even hurts to look at it. I never rode the bike with it mounted.

[deilenberger]

Actually - I found the low seat became more comfortable as I got miles on it. The first 500 were agony. Up to 1,000 - painful. After about 1,000 either it adjusted to my butt, or my butt adjusted to it, it was as good as most seats get with me (I have a problem with ANY seat - including Russell DayLong done custom for me.) In early discussions here - it seemed that the scooped out bowl shape of the low seat was more comfortable for many people then the slightly domed shape of the normal and high seats.

As far as lowered suspension beating you up - if it is done wrong, it can. A rather longish discourse on this topic over on the MOA hexhead forum:

Here is the thread: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63775
And here is my posting on lowering suspension: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showpost.ph ... ostcount=6

And my posting is about comparing two lowered R12R's, and why one works and one doesn't (and I've looked - BMW did do it "wrong" IMHO, but probably for legal reasons - they do know better on how to build the suspension right..) I won't bother repeating the entire thing here - it's long and available even for non-MOA-members..

[Shakey]

I have a 29 inch inseam and I bought the standard '11 bike but got the dealer to swap over to the standard "sport" seat because I found the Comfort seat difficult to swing a leg over. Since then I've had it re-covered with a gel insert and raised 1/2 inch to increase the distance between the footpeg and the seat for knee comfort. I've been on tour this year - 1200miles - without problem.

The weight of this bike is all pretty low down (and using a tank bag / top box doesn't seem to effect the feel too much) so being on the balls of my feet at a stop isn't a problem for me at all.

hope that's helpful.

[atractaspis]

Thanks Don and Martin... very helpful information indeed. I have finally come to the decision that I don't even care about color anymore.. will for sure keep a normal suspension after all the comments here, all I want now is to RIDE one...