R1200RT vs K1200GT what could I expect?

[DonaldLL]

Hello all,

I recently posted a question about touring bikes, i.e. Goldwing, LT, etc. and after reading suggestions by the board members, I want to check out the 1200RT and the 1200GT. I know one is our 2cyl Boxer engine and the other is the K bike. What does this really mean to me, the rider and what other differences might I observe. In particular how are the ergos compared to our R bike?

A local dealer has both in stock so I'll go check them out tomorrow!!!

I do one up riding on flat straight roads in South Florida. I am thinking about changing from our R bike to something more suited for the annual 3k or 4k mile trips I want to take however, still useable for my 300 mile day trips around Miami. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1150R .... just thinking about a change. I do highway cruising and very little stop and go traffic (if I can help it)

Thanks

[GJBushman]

I'll be interested in the replies you get. I am also have considered moving to the K bike, more the K12RS than GT. This past summer I purchased a K100RT and have been really liking the K engine. The ergos are not the greatest but its a 20 year old bike. There was recent thread about 4 cylinder engines vs twins on this board you should read. I think you'll find most of the folks on this board prefer the boxer twin. The K is a heavier bike. I hope to test ride the K12RS soon. I am considering a change from my R1150GS to the K12RS.

[tomski12]

The GT is great with a very strong, smooth, linear power band. Its heavy, though and not the most flickable. The RT is a great bike. A bit more nimble than the GT. I did a trip in Austria in the Alps and the RT's aquitted themselves very well in the tight switchbacks with 2 up. Personally, I like the GS the best for Florida weather. The ergos are very similar to the RT's. The advantage of the GS (and the RR) over the RT, for us Floridians, is the lack of fairing. I don't want a cocoon blocking the airflow around me.

just my .02.

[DonaldLL]

Yeah Tomski, I know about the airflow. What I need/want is a couple/few different bikes! The GS although very nice in it's own class, just isn't going to do it for me. I am looking for something that does the 3k or 4k mile trip and is more specifically designed to do so, i.e. ergos, fairing, bigger windscreen, etc. I've already done a couple of trips on the 1150R and no problems but I think it' time for a change.

I'm not ready for the Goldwing or LT but looking for the interim step before I go that route. Those guys on those touring bikes just look soooo comfortable and relaxed.

Thanks

[dallara]

Twins or Fours... Fours or Twins... Ah, yes - that is the question!

Of course, then there are Sixes, too...

Seriously, though - Engines are really an interesting subject. It is really funny how even two engines of the same brand and even the same model can have different characters... Manufacturering tolerances, assembly oddities, etc. - like some Oilhead twins surging while others do not.

But where it really gets entertaining is when you have two engines from different makers, and even though they are incredibly alike in design, layout, valve angle, intake and exhaust size, bore and stroke, etc. they can feel "night and day" different. For instance, some inline fours are turbine smooth, while others will buzz you so bad you swear you have your finger in a light socket... Some will rev to the moon, while other reach a point in the rev range and go breathless... Some are incredibly torquey, while others feel they need 10,000 RPM under their belt before they wake up...

Twins... Wow, the terrifically diverse area of twins... V-Twins of all sorts of V-angles... Flat twins... Parallel twins, some with 180 degree cranks, others with 360 degree cranks, and even some with oddball 270 degree cranks to give them a different vibe character and sound... And no two alike. I love 'em, but yet there are some that are nice and torquey (like our Beemers) and others that are so revvy you wonder if they aren't fours.

V-Fours are actually my favorites... Like my old 1986 Honda VFR-750-F - still the best power delivery motorcycle of any engie I have experienced. All the torquey feeling of the best twins, but with the ability to spin up high like an inline four... and seamless everywhere, propelling you faster than you really think you are going, and feeling like it is doing it effortlessly. God, how I wish Honda would build an 1100 to 1300 cc VFR with shaft drive and creature comforts like a BMW RT or Yamaha FJR, all while keeping it light and agile like the VFR-800... I'd buy two. Sorry, the bulbous, overweight, two-wheeled Accord that the ST-1300 just doesn't cut it.

Beemer's "Flying Bricks" like the K-1200-RS and K-1200-GT are fantastic motorcycles (I almost bought a GT once...), but sadly at the end of their developmental cycle and soon to be dropped by BMW. They are a bit long, and slow steering, and a bear in tight quarters, but still wonderful machines. However, if I had to choose between a new BMW R-1200-RT Hexhead Twin and a BMW K-1200-GT "Brick" (and money was not in the equation...) I'm afraid I would have to go for the more loveable and personality-filled character of the R-1200-RT. Beemer's flat twins are among the "best-feeling" engines in the world, and I only wish that BMW hadn't decided to price the R-1200-RT right out of the ballpark for me...

So I retreat to the the brute power and (IMHO) better value of an inline four - the Yamaha FJR-1300.

In the end, Donald, it is really up to you... Ride as many different engine layouts as you can, and decide which one you want to spend all day with riding.

Hell, it will be fun just finding out!

Cheers!

Dallara

[yjleesvrr]

The old "Flying Brick" gets contradictory reviews. Some say its smooth as silk, others have said it is vibey. I've never ridden one so I can't give a first-hand account.

Regardless, I'd wait for the new KGT. The new one is supposed to be lighter, more powerful, and flick easier. I test rode the new KS and the engine feels very Japanese, which isn't a bad thing. It's smooth, very powerful, and I never felt the surging some have observed with the first run of bikes with the new inline 4.

The new hex heads aren't slouches, and for touring purposes are the optimum choice, IMO. I test rode the R1200GS and loved it. Its powerband is such that the bike never feels like it's laboring. The hex head motor in the RT is tuned for even more power - nearly 100 hp and 80 ft. lbs. of torque. I can't wait to test ride the RT, as it is a close second to the GS as my next planned bike acquisition.

[Ian Leadley]

I have been pondering switching from the R as well. I've decided not to. The wonderful thing about the R is its versatility. It truly does it all very well. You need hard bags, a vario windscreen and whatever other accessories your heart desires. I havea back rest, bar backs and peg lowerers from Germany. Take the bags off, and you can rip around locally and enjoy the ride. Pop the bags on, attach the backrest, a roll bag and you can cross the country. The R is very forgiving with respect to which gear you're in, has a ton of torque and very usable real world power. Suspension and handling is among the best in the world for that price range. Why spend more. Quit looking, enjoy your R!
One last thing I bought recently to enjoy biking in the Nova Scotia winter is a Cycle Hauler trailer for behind the Accord. See you in South Florida this January.

[DK]

My dad just bought an '05 RT about 6 weeks ago. He lives in southeastern Ohio and rides "twisties" with it and the handling is fantastic. His other bike is a '78 R100/7 that he bought new so this is a way different machine and he is really enjoying it. He had nearly convinced himself to get the LT but the more he thought about it, he realized the RT would be a better choice for his type of riding. Plus, it's easier for him to handle; he just turned 72 years old this summer. I rode the RT and I really liked it. The one thing that impressed me was how the wind went completely around me when I adjusted the windshield up. I'm 6'1" and the only air I felt was on the tops of my shoes; this would be handy for a long trip. If I had to replace my R1150R , I'd most likely get the RT.


DK

[greer]

I've never ridden a KGT, but a buddy down the road bought a used '04 a couple of months ago. My GS-riding husband and a V-Strom buddy could hardly wait to ride it. They both said the power impressive but the handling was horrible compared to our boxers. The V-strom buddy actually said his palms were sore from pushing the bars thru the tighter curves. As I said I've never ridden it, but I can remember way back when I realized I boo-booed going from an R65 to a K75, and was never so happy to trade the K for an R80. I'd say take a long test ride on each. Good luck, Sarah

[DonaldLL]

Yep, it sure is fun just finding out which bike is the next one. Like Ian said, our R does it all and there is really no reason for me to consider a change other than I can and I ready for it. I am in no rush and Dallara, you're right! It sure is fun.

Last night while I was staring at the TV, I was thinking about going to see the R1200RT today. I told my GF, I felt like a little kid the night before a shopping spree at the toy store.

I would love to see the Yamaha FJR and better yet, I'd like to feel the ergos, but I doubt that will happen any time soon.

I do like the 1200RT but not the price.... decidions-decisions.

Well, we're off to see a few bikes today and take care of last minute details before WILMA arrives! Geez, my first hurricane season in Miami and it's been busy.

Thanks all

Donald

[dallara]

Hey, Donald...

Was by my friendly local Kawasaki/Yamaha dealer yesterday to pick up some items, and asked the latest on 2006 Yamaha FJR-1300-A's. He looked in the computer and found nothing new (still saying "2006 March Release" essentially), so he got on the phone anc called Cypress, CA (Yamaha) and got our mutual buddy on the line... Latest word - Yamaha likes to keep its release dates accurate, and the production-typing of the '06 FJR is done. Apparently Yamaha would like to have all the early order PDP FJR-A's in the customers hands by early March, and that some would most likely be arriving in mid to late February...

Since there is one earmarked for me, and my dealer buddy got the order in on the first day (approx. #90 in the USA, though I still am not obligated for the bike) hopefully it will be one of the early ones. I am about 90-95% sure I am going to take it, so maybe I'll have one this spring. If so, you are welcome to come on over to Texas and take it for a spin, back to back with my R-1150-R. Just grab a plane and hop over for a day or two, if it will help ya' make up your mind... and you can wait that long!

Cheers!

Dallara

[DonaldLL]

Dallara,

Man that's quite an offer and tempting too, but I don't think I can wait! Interestingly enough, I went to a Yamaha dealer yesterday to bring my girlfriend see the V Star 1100 Silverado. She has a 2002 Honda Shadow ACE and is thinking about getting something a bit more substantial than her 750cc.

Anyway, I inquired about the FJR. The sales guy told me that Yamaha ALWAYS runs late on their delivery dates and I should not expect delivery of an FJR in March regardless of what I heard. He said it would be more like April or May.... they always run 2 months late. I guess he didn't have much sales training to spot the interested buyer. I asked, "If I give you a deposit (hint: I want to buy) what if I don't want the bike?" He said, "You loose your $1000 deposit" and went on into some long story blah, blah, blah.

I questioned the $1000 deposit and told him that I was told by another dealer that the dep was $500... he "corrected" himself.

He then proceeded to tell me that "those BMW engines with the cylinders pointing out (demonstrating with thumbs) are HORRIBLE. Need I say more?

I did see, touch, feel an R1200RT at BMW dealer... 2 of 'em in fact. One had a few options and was priced at $18,500 +TTL. The 2nd R1200RT had more options and was priced at $20,599 + TTL. The LT sitting right next to it was $21,500.

Guys, I know there has been much discussion about this on this board. There is no right or wrong just personal opinion in this matter. My personal opinion... my feeling... I wanted to stay with the BMW line. I wanted to stay with the Boxer engine. BUT! If I feel like I am getting ripped off or taken advantage of, I'll move on to another brand.

Our R1150R is a grrreat value and a fantastic all 'round bike, but to consider these prices... I just won't do it.

Thanks

[Ian Leadley]

Although I decided to keep the R, I've got envy and respect, and God knows what else, for people that change their bike. It is soooo much fun going on that first jaunt, first trip through the twisties, first long road trip, first long ride with your son in another province or state etc etc.

It would be great to have a test rider job too. But, come to think of it, that could be difficult having to tell the truth about some p-o-s, or worse yet, having to find good things to say when you believe its crap but have to support the marketing / advertising group.

What is nice is that people like yourselves pick up new bikes, try them out, and honestly report back on your comparisons and experiences. Somebody named Bill helped me decide on my ACE 750 and my R1150R. I really, really appreciated that. (test ride still required).

[dallara]

Wow, DonaldLL...

Sounds like you stumbled upon a flake of a salesman!

Guy like that would have had me heading for the door... (sounds like the BMW dealer closest to me, and why I go to one another 50 miles further up the road)

I can assure you that the Yamaha PDP deposit *IS* $500.00, and only $500.00, period.

Secondly, whether the deposit is refundable is at the discretion of the dealer. When a dealer orders an FJR on the PDP program his open parts account is debited $500.00 no matter whose name is on the order. He gets this back once the bike is sold and registered. He is supposed to take the $500.00 deposit from the customer to defray his being charged on his open parts account, and of course apply that $500.00 to the final total of the bike when the customer picks the bike up, so in the end everything is a wash... Well, of course, other than the dealer gets to hold $500.00 of the customers money for a few months so the customer loses the time value of those bucks...

So the dealer can return the deposit if he chooses since he ends up getting the $500.00 back on his parts account as soon as the unit sells. My dealer says he is more than happy to refund any deposits as he has had no trouble selling any FJR-1300's... Even ones customers backed out on.

On the subject of delivery time... I think that depends on the dealer, when it comes to FJR's, more than most realize. FJR's are delivered "first come, first serve", so if the dealer doesn't get orders in line early his delivered units will be late. My dealer always orders a few FJR's the day ordering becomes available... i.e. the one that has my name on it (should I decide to take it) would be #90 in the USA, and hence it should hit in the earliest batch.

According to my dealer (and the rep we spoke to) FJR's in 2004 and 2005 were not only on schedule, but in several PDP periods began arriving early. MY dealer did say that the first 2003's were a month late, however. I trust my dealer implicitly, as he is first my friend and as second he has never lied to me in over twenty years of knowing him.

But, I guess we'll see...

Still, IMHO, it sounds like to me you should steer well clear of that salesman you ran into...

And, Donald... On the subject of pricing, I couldn't be more with you!

I really, honestly want a 2006 BMW R-1200-RT... Much more than I actually want a Yamaha FJR-1300... But after shopping for an R-1200-RT I simply cannot in clear conscience justify the inflated cost. I love twins, and I really love BMW boxer twins, but I don't love 'em enough to pay half again as much as an FJR-1300 more to have one... That's just waaaaaay too high a "Roundel Tax" for me. If an new BMW R-1200-RT was priced around $14,500 - $15,500 I would already own one... Might even go $16,000... But $18,500 plus T,T,&L for a "stripper", and over $20K for one with the "options"...

Sorry, BMW... No way, no how. Not even if I won the friggin' lottery.

Just my two yen...

Cheers!

Dallara

[DonaldLL]

Dallara,

I'm not trying to compare Yamahas to Hondas, or Japanese bikes to German bikes, or sport touring to touring, or start a war here

BUT!! When my girlfriend loves the 2005 Honda VTX 1300R for $8k (yup that's correct) and I can get a 2006 Yamaha Roadstar Silverado (for example) for $12500... that's 2 bikes for $20k and change compared to 1 bike? And it's not even really about the money!

I guess what I'm tryin' to say here is that for ME, that is, from my point of view, I'm gonna wind up spending the +\-20 Grand anyway... maybe a little bit more than that; but I get to play with 2 bikes instead of one. I get to sell one later on, keep one and try another. I just get more options; I get to play more.

I still think our R bike is one of the best, if not the best of it's kind and at an acceptable price. Maybe I'll come back to the Beemers after I get "price adjusted" but like I said... I just feel like I'm being ripped off at $20k for an R1200RT.

The older I get the more I get to be just like my dad.... he will not buy a new car. Not at these insane prices! That's another discussion.

See ya....... Donald

Going to go wait for Wilma... she's on her way tonight

[mistercindy]

My advice is a touch of patience for a good used R1200RT with papers and service stamps intact. But since the 1200RT is still in its first production year, you won't find it for a while. If you could wait through another summer season, you're likely to find low to moderate mileage (10,000 miles or so) R1200RT bikes out there with price tags under $15,000.

IMHO that's the way to buy any vehicle: car or bike.



And Dallara, heckuva post on your thoughts regarding engines!

[Ian Leadley]

I agree with the folks that are questioning the price of the new RT. That is an awful lot of money. I believe that the Honda 1300 ST is several thousand Canadian cheaper. At the high BMW prices I can understand people making the decision to go with another brand. I'd be looking at the ST 1300 too. Dealer network for BMW in Atlantic Canada is also very very thin (one dealer in Moncton) while Honda has numerous locations in each Atlantic province.