Help with electrical mystery

[sstein]

Hoping some electronical sleuths out there can help me!!!!

I installed a turn signal auto-cancelling unit called the "Smart Turn System"

https://www.safer-turn.com/us/

Some Specifications (from the website):
Unit dimensions: 32x32x45 mm
Unit weight: 155 g
Housing: Reinforced automotive-grade polyamide
Power supply: 12 VDC
Consumption: 250 mW
Cable length: 50 cm

Manufactured and shipped from Slovenia.

It is a small plastic unit that is mounted on the bike, and "spliced" into the wires coming from the L and R turn signal light, the reset wire, and is powered and grounded. The unit supposedly contains a few motion sensors and can sense when the bike is moving, stopping, leaning or un-leaning and will turn off the signal at the correct time. Also self-cancels after 15 sec if no turn is initiated. In operation, when the key is turned to ignition, there will be a single R flash followed by a L flash indicating that the system is calibrating. Then you're supposed to be good to go.

The issue I am having is as follows:

Every time I turn the key to ignition I DO get the single R and L flash. However after starting the bike up, I get NO turn signal response when I try to activate either signal (OBVIOUSLY NOT A GOOD THING). However after riding for a period of time and coming to a complete stop, the unit will suddenly spontaneously recalibrate (single R and L flash) and then operate like a dream until I turn the bike off. Then, usually it will take a much shorter time to recalibrate after starting the bike again.

A bit more info:

- I have the unit powered via a relayed fuse panel (10 amp fuse) which also powers a few accessory lights that work great (I have tried various different connections on the panel).
- The unit NEVER recalibrates while moving. I could ride from Providence RI to Connecticut and it will not work until I stop for gas (BUT then I have to turn off the bike again - NO SIGNALS!!!)
- The customer service has been great. The support staff - Mark - has answered tons of questions and even sent me a replacement unit free of charge thinking there was something wrong with the first unit. He insists that this unit is compatible with the 02R and has installed some himself on this model. I have no great reason not to believe him. He is stumped by my issue.
- I was due for a new battery anyway, so I just replaced it. If anything, seems to take longer for the unit to come on since installing the battery...

I know this is a big ask, but I really love this unit when it works and would love to get it to work right before finally throwing in the towel. Wondering if there is something obvious/specific that I am not thinking about....something electical? voltage? power source?

Any help would be great. If ahy additional info would help let me know.

Help me Obi Wan Kenobi - you're my only hope!

Steven

[Photoguy]

Wish I could help, but I'm electrically challenged here.
Any tech support from the manufacturer?

[sstein]

Thanks Photoguy.

They were quite helpful via email, but after making lots of recommendations and sending the replacement unit, and hoping for a fix with the new battery, he was stumped.



It almost seems like the unit is not powered up until I ride for a while. Is the 10 amp fuse too low? Is too much voltage/amperage being taken by the parallel circuits from the fuse panel?

(I know I am showing my level of electical know-how here... )

[sstein]

I will say that I have absolutely perfected the art of fuel tank removal/installation.

It is INSANE that I can't rewire and retest anything without pulling the tank, tinkering, replacing the tank, pulling, tinkering, replacing, rinse, repeat etc....

[Photoguy]

Ok, like I said, challenged here but treading water till someone more knowledgable comes along!

You already know that there's more here than meets the eye, especially so since this has happened with 2 units. You've probably already done this a few times it sounds, but I'd keep going over and over the wiring and installation to be 100% confident in the connections and mounting, insuring that it's level, etc.

Presumably there's some kind of mercury switches(or equivalent) inside to measure bike lean, acceleration, etc? These must also supply and interrupt electrical flow? I'd personally find myself going back to the old TV repair days of slapping it on the side- trying to physically activate the internal switches to see if I could get it to work. Not easy to do I'm sure with it under the tank.

Again, just treading water in between work, so the best I can say is good luck, hope you get it sorted and I understand the frustration..and hope that someone more knowledgeable comes along soon.

[sstein]

Thanks, that's great. Your talk about "mercury switches" is beyond my electonic knowlege, but one thing I have not done is to move the location of the unit, so I will give that a try while I recheck the wiring. the unit is marked with a directional arrow on top. It has to be positioned with the arrow on top pointing forward.

I'll also try to sneak my hand under the tank and give the unit a tap.

All good suggestions. Thanks, appreciated.

[Photoguy]

I don't know that there are mercury switches exactly, but there must be something similar (the modern equivalent) that senses movement/lean/stopping as a means of supplying and interrupting power to the device. (I would think anyway-)

My avatar tells you all you need to know about my electrical wisdom------------------------------------------->


Best of luck-

[sweatmark]

1. Did you get install instructions specific to R1150** bikes?

2. Load relief relay K9120.

3. I'm guessing item 1 is "no" or instructions incorrect due to unrecognized function of item 2.

[sstein]

Sweatmark,

Yes I did have directions specific to the bike (actually, the directions were for "older BMWs")

Everything in the directions matched up with the electrical charts, wire colors, etc.

What/where is load relief relay K9120 and what is its significance?

Can you tell me a bit more about that? Is it a no-go for this type of device?

Steven

[sstein]

I did a little more research. Load relief relay is located under the seat.

Sweatmark, are you saying that the load relief relay will prohibit power to this unit, or that it is NOT working and THAT is why the unit is not functioning? Would that explain the delayed functioning of the unit?

My understanding is the load relief relay redirects full power to the starter motor when the start button is pressed. After the bike starts, shouldn't there be power to other devices/accessories.

Sorry, I am totally unclear about the electronics but really hoping for something here.

Thanks,

Steven

[sweatmark]

- I have the unit powered via a relayed fuse panel (10 amp fuse) which also powers a few accessory lights that work great (I have tried various different connections on the panel).

Guessing that your fuse panel is switched on and off via a circuit on the load relief relay. That relay turns off some bike systems during motor start, then reconnects them after starting process has finished.

If so, then you need to change trigger source for relay that powers your aux panel.

[sstein]

OK, so the fuse panel IS powered via a circuit on the load relief relay. I know that because the aux lights (via the aux panel) go on with the key, then off during motor start, then back on. I have this turn signal unit powered through the same aux panel. Does that explain that the aux lights come back on after start up but the turn signal unit does not, or at least not until I have been riding for a while?

If so, any suggestions for a trigger source that is NOT in the load relief relay circuit?

I am feeling a bit hopeful. Thanks for the info.

[sweatmark]

Tail light (E9013) or "Side" light (aka City light E9015, that little extra bulb inside headlight). Both are ignition key switched through Fuse 2, and not on Load Relief relay. Choose based on easiest & shortest trigger wire run to your aux panel relay.

[sykospain]

Yes, sweatmark is bob-on. The reason for the problem is that the auto-off winker kit is powered from the wrong source. Try instead going straight across the battery via a 5 Amp inline fuse. I always do that for hot gloves, phone charging, satnav feeds, etc., etc.
That'll sort it. Betcha.

AL in s.e. Spain

[sstein]

Sounds like a plan. I will try your recommendations starting with the direct to battery power and see if that works.

Thanks for all your help with this.

Great forum.

Have a good weekend.


Steven

[sstein]

So I changed the relay trigger (relay to my fuse panel) to the wires from fuse 2. Works fine. The accessories powered via the panel still turn off with hitting the engine switch so still seems to be through the load relief relay?

I powered the turn signal unit directly from the battery positive lead and now it works perfectly. - thank you Al in Spain.

Issue of course is the battery drain, right?

I'm wondering if the real problem was the relay to the fuse panel. Maybe it is not the right rating or something.

Anyway, nice to have turn signals that work right.

[sstein]

Sykospin,

Connecting the unity directly to the battery worked, but I assume there will be drain on the battery, right? Better to change to a different power source?

[sweatmark]

So I changed the relay trigger (relay to my fuse panel) to the wires from fuse 2. Works fine. The accessories powered via the panel still turn off with hitting the engine switch so still seems to be through the load relief relay?

R1150R?
Mfr date?

My BMW SLP cd-rom shows Fuse 2 connected through key switch, not the load relief relay. If power relay trigger for your aux panel is truly on Fuse 2 circuit, then panel power should be on in key RUN and stay that way until key OFF. Your turn signal gadget should work if connected to the panel, assuming its relay trigger is Fuse 2 or Fuse 1.

[sstein]

Sweatmark I appreciate your input. IF fuse 2 is not on the load relief circuit, would you expect all accessories to stay on even while engine start button is depressed? I notice that the tail light goes off during startup and I'm pretty sure it is on fuse 2.
My clymer diagram agrees that fuse 2 is not wired to load relief relay so I'm surprised that tail light goes off. But then again there is a good chance that I don't really understand how that circuit operates.

[sweatmark]

Sweatmark I appreciate your input. IF fuse 2 is not on the load relief circuit, would you expect all accessories to stay on even while engine start button is depressed? I notice that the tail light goes off during startup and I'm pretty sure it is on fuse 2.
My clymer diagram agrees that fuse 2 is not wired to load relief relay so I'm surprised that tail light goes off. But then again there is a good chance that I don't really understand how that circuit operates.

Try Fuse 1 circuits (IGN key switch): instrument lights, brake switches if non-ABS.

Fuse 2 is also supplied via IGN switch for both Roadster and Rockster. Should be hot whenever key is in ON position, and should maintain enough voltage during start to keep aux devices running. BUT there's a chance that any connected device (including relay supplying your aux panel) can be sensitive to Vdc<12, which might happen with beefy BMW starter and a weak or wimpy battery.