Pinging & Octane questions

[Momo]

Hi all,
I just had a 12K service for my dear 50R (2003 single plug) done by the local BMW dealership. I mentioned to the mechanic that the bike is pinging under pressure (high gear low RPM). He told me that the after the service the pinging will be reduced, and asked me to ride on higher RPM (above 5K). He recommended not using extra additives and just riding the bike hard.
I tried to ride the bike on 4th and 5th gear (5K -6K RPM) for 200 miles. The bike still pings under 'provocation' (full throttle less than 5K RPM).
I really hate riding the bike on 6K RPM for 100 miles on highways. It’s not fun to ride with the old boxer engine (with my previous bike, Ducati, it was way more fun!!!).
Today I tried to use lower octane (89 Chevron with Techron...), I didn't hear any pinging under regular use but again the bike started pinging under pressure.
At this point I guess my next move is to use SeaFoam. From previous messages I understand that 4 OZ for tank every 2K miles should help a lot.
Few questions:
Should I stay with 91 octane?
Is it OK to cruise with the bike on 3500 RPM (and keep it at all time above 3000 RPM)?
Does SeaFoam solve the pinging completely?
It’s wired for me that a 2003 bike with fuel injection pings, if I can't solve this issue the bike got to go....

[FGanger]

Momo,

As I understand it, when an engine “Pings,” there are two flame fronts. One, usually from the spark plug, starts across the combustion chamber. Another one, from hot spots in the combustion chamber, also starts. This second flame front is usually 180 degrees across from the first. When the two fronts come together the sound we hear is called “Pinging.” The usual “cure” for this is to go with higher octane fuel. The higher the octane the slower the fuel burns.

Now unless my hearing is so bad (a definite possibility) my ‘03 does not ping. My wife has good hearing and when she rides pillion she does not hear any pinging either. My machine has 50,000 on the clock and as far as I know - no pinging.

I use whatever is the middle grade of octane for my fill-ups when riding solo. My thought is that higher octane fuel, due to it slower burning, does not get a complete combustion. The result of this is carbon deposits forming in the combustion chamber. I have even used the lower octane fuel when there are only two choices. When riding two-up for a long distance or when pulling my camper, I use the highest octane fuel available. My wife does the same with her bike (BMW), minus the pulling of a camper - no pinging. Except for unusual circumstances, I use 4,000 RPM as my “normal” riding point.

Will this work for you? Probably, once you are able to get rid of the carbon deposits or at least reduce them. The old way, very old to most, but state of the art for me, is to induce some (very little) moisture (water) into the fuel. There are fuel additives which do the same/similar thing.

My suggestion is to wait until one of the guys who keep up on this stuff chime in (new2BMW, Dallara, DeanO, Patrick, The rider of Darth, boxermania [who has his hands full right now], or BobFV1). I should not have done a list like this, I always leave someone out. And if my past is a good predictor of my future, it will be a rather important omission. All of the above are those I trust - plus the ones I've forgotten.

I hope this helps but I’ve got to run - first day of school - ugh.
Frank

[jm1515]

Hi all,
I just had a 12K service for my dear 50R (2003 single plug) done by the local BMW dealership. I mentioned to the mechanic that the bike is pinging under pressure (high gear low RPM). He told me that the after the service the pinging will be reduced, and asked me to ride on higher RPM (above 5K). He recommended not using extra additives and just riding the bike hard.
I tried to ride the bike on 4th and 5th gear (5K -6K RPM) for 200 miles. The bike still pings under 'provocation' (full throttle less than 5K RPM).
I really hate riding the bike on 6K RPM for 100 miles on highways. It’s not fun to ride with the old boxer engine (with my previous bike, Ducati, it was way more fun!!!).
Today I tried to use lower octane (89 Chevron with Techron...), I didn't hear any pinging under regular use but again the bike started pinging under pressure.
At this point I guess my next move is to use SeaFoam. From previous messages I understand that 4 OZ for tank every 2K miles should help a lot.
Few questions:
Should I stay with 91 octane?
Is it OK to cruise with the bike on 3500 RPM (and keep it at all time above 3000 RPM)?
Does SeaFoam solve the pinging completely?
It’s wired for me that a 2003 bike with fuel injection pings, if I can't solve this issue the bike got to go....

You might have carbon build up on the pistons, which leads to higher compression which could lead to pinging. If you've been running 91octane and not winding it out occasionally, what Frank said could be true...you've not been getting a complete burn of the mixture...esp w/one spark plug.
I would do the Seafoam thing...or you can use Techcron or DuraLube Fuel Treatment. I use the DuraLube myself...1/2 bottle at every oil change.
Yamaha also makes an excellent de-carbonizer product you can get at any Yammy dealer. Try a couple of doses of either and see if that will help...
As far as your Qs....in no particular order.
1. I use 89octane as specified on the label on my gas tank. The OM says 91, but I have always used the lowest octane I can use w/out pinging because it will burn more completely in most situations.
2. Any de-carbonizer product may or may not solve your pinging issue. It depends on whether carbon is the main culprit to begin with, and how much is cooked onto the pistons and cylinder walls. They are an easy inital step....
3. I ride the same way...always over 3k in whatever gear necessary, usually in the 3500~4000rpm range. I even use the over-overdrive 6th anytime I can. Every so often, I get to a stretch of highway where I can wind it to 5k or more in 5th. Since that's 80mph or more, it's tough to do regularly unless highway riding is a regular part of your diet.
I've got 5800mi on since I bought the bike new in May, and I use 89octane only. No pinging...yet. Even w/a Techlusion R259 dialed in really low.
DuraLube every oil change....

[Pat]

Once you've got that dreaded carbon build-up, it's gonna take time, patience, additives, and developing a different style of how ya ride/shift/accelerate/cruise. Your build-up will not (SHOULD NOT) be something you can rid your top-end of overnight, or even over a weekend.

I would advise putting about 6 ounces of seafoam into a full tank of medium grade gas. Take yer bike out for a spin where you may be frequently called upon to accelerate hard from a slow or stop. Wind that puppy out just short of where it pings, try to get in under the radar and ride between 70 & 110 mph for some semi-long spells, spank your bike just short of it asking for more (it hurts soooo gooood....).

There, wasn't that fun?! Weekend #1.... and looking forward to weekend #2. Just run that medium grade gas in yer tank for a couple weeks while you commute. While commuting, find the occasion to accelerate harder than you normally would, don't ride it in 6th..... cruising along with nary a care in the world..... ride in 5th, downshift to 4th, click her up to 6th, and down to 5th again..... don't just lope along like your Boxer engine was a "Big Twin."

Next time out for a weekend run, crank that baby up into the party zone frequently. Maybe this time with some Marvel's Mystery Oil in yer gas, Kawasaki's additive designed to defeat carbon build-up, or more Seafoam, whatever...... Repeat the fun you had the run before.

The key is to spank your Boxer just short of where it pings. Learn how to ride it like it was a two stroke Yamaha, or Honda 750 Super Sport. Every 2,000 miles, add about four ounces of Seafoam. Find a grade of gas your bike likes best, and a local gas station that seems to cater to your bike's tastes.

Listen AND respond to what your engine is telling you....... and spank 'em often, ONLY where you will not draw attention to yourself. Patent leather dominatrix boots not required.

[Badger]

'04 with abs...two sparks....have always filled with high test...no pinging...no surging....just tons of raw smooth power getting better and better (13,000 miles at the moment)

[baltm604]

Does anyone have a suggestion for inspecting the pistons for carbon build up without pulling the top end?

Bill

[FGanger]

I've never tried on my R bike, but one used to be able to pull the spark plug and look in with a flashlight. Generally what ever you see will be indicative of the whole combustion chamber.

Frank

[Guest]

Have troubles with my bike also, we are only able to get 93 octane at most places here in the Philippines and my bike pings under hard acceleration, also vibration over 3500 RPM. Thrashed it yesterday and a bit better but still got the vibration and pinging. anyone know any cures we can do here???? BTW my valves have just been set at the 10k service and it hasn't made any difference.

[Slipstream]

Me too--just started noticing the pinging--at first I thought my front wheel was throwing small pebbles up against the front of the engine...

I always use premium fuel, despite the cost...looks like I'll have to thrash it to clean it out, although I wonder if it's not just the summer heat that causes so many of us to experience this phenomenon in the summertime.

[NoRRmad]

Gas companies change their fuel mixtures in the Summer, too...

[Guest]

Sucking a capful of a product like sea foam or marvel's mystery oil through the vacuum tubes on the bottom of each throttle body can remove the build up more quickly than prviously mentioned methods. Also, tuning the throttle position sensor and hall effect sensor can improve the detonation problem. Short of a top end tear-down, though there doesn't seem to be a sure fire method for fixing this common problem.