R1200R vs. R1200GS camheads - observations

[arp]

During the 12K mi service on my R1200R Classic (2012) I put ~ 100 miles ( street and highway only) on a loaner camhead R1200GS (7K mi, ESA, hand guards ). I know there are lots of comparisons out there, and the bikes are apples and oranges with different missions, but thought I would add my own observations which touch on things I have not seen mentioned in other posts.

The R1200R is my first bike, excluding mini bikes I had as a kid. Well before I got my endorsement later in life, the bike I envisioned myself on was an RT. When I got my endorsement, the RT was not an option as a first bike, but the R seemed just doable and has indeed been a good choice for me. Knowing what I know now, I think the GS would have also been just doable.

The GS did not seem heavier nor top heavy. In fact it was more flickable. At low speed it was more maneuverable and confidence inspiring. I'm not sure why this is, steering geometry, larger front tire? When I got back on the R I found I was more aggressive at low speeds than I had been before. The R is deliberate, whereas the GS is improv.

The corollary to the above was that on the freeway, the GS was not as smooth as the R. There always seemed to be some small, medium frequency oscillations in the steering. Turbulence from cars and trucks induced small steering inputs. Maybe this was due to the hand guards? Tires? I noticed the same effect on a G650GS, only more pronounced. The R in comparison is refined and smooth and the steering is rock steady.

I tried the GS windshield in the highest and lowest positions on the highway. It removed the pressure on the chest, but there was always noise and buffeting. With the naked R, The pressure on the chest can be tiring but the air is smooth and there is not nearly as much buffeting. On a long trip, I'm not sure which would be more comfortable. Maybe an RT:)

The GS suspension was great at absorbing rough roads (I used ESA settings normal and comfort but did not feel much difference between two). The R is definitely harsher. I find with the R, the bike can hobbyhorse over rough road features, which induces throttle inputs which then make the problem worse. The GS is much better in this regard (obviously the GSs forte is off road).

The seat height on the GS is of course much higher than the standard comfort seat on the R, but the knee angle did not seem significantly more open. I was expecting better. For me (6'1" and 35" inseam) cycle-ergo.com shows the R at 68 deg and the GS at 78 deg.

The instrument cluster on the R is simple, functional and elegant. Speedo and Tach are large size dial guages, symmetrical about the bikes C/L, with other info simply presented between them. What more could you want? The GS cluster is less well done IMHO.

For me the GS seat is more comfortable than the R comfort seat.

The R is beautiful. The GS ...?

It was good to get my R back at the end of the day! (since I do little off road riding).

[objectuser]

I enjoy these discussions because I currently have both a 2009 R1200R and a 2009 R1200GS. (And, yes, I say the same things about them over and over ... sorry about that )



I agree that these bikes are largely different. However, when I first got the R, I basically tried to transform it into a GS. I didn't know much about the GS at the time: I just knew I didn't need to go off pavement.

After that experiment, I had a bike that didn't satisfy me in town or on the highway. So I decided to sell it and try something else. I took all my farkles off the R and put it up for sale, and bought a GS (after trying quite a few bikes).

Since the R has been for sale, I've really enjoyed it. In town, on a nice day, there's no question: I ride the R. I've learned how to sit when I'm riding a bit sporty, and I know how to just cruise on it. It's become much more comfortable for me, with less pressure on my wrists (partly due to riding it without a windscreen, I think). It's not all day comfortable, but it's just a joy for rides around town. Oh, and I just got it back from it's 12k mile service yesterday. I had the low-speed throttle "on/off" issue discussed in another thread (I didn't even know it was an issue until reading that ... ironic). Well, no more. They said that usually goes away with syncing the throttle bodies (if I understood them correctly), and they were right. Very happy!

My GS is setup as a highway cruiser. That doesn't mean that it sucks around town. It's actually a lot of fun, and as you say, very maneuverable. I don't know how they did that, but at low speeds, I'm better on the GS. On the highway, it's all day comfortable. I bought it over the RT because there's more airflow with the GS, and it gets pretty hot here in Dallas and the surrounding areas.

I'm constantly looking at other bikes because there are so many cool bikes out there. As I look, the R seems less replaceable than the GS, even though I'm drawn to bikes like the Speed Triple. The R is great and I can mount luggage and have everything I need for the office (even though I do that less than once a week). You can sort of do that with a Speed Triple, but it's not nearly as practical. Conversely, there are a lot of great highway cruisers that will carry just as much as my GS (though maybe they're also a bit less versatile ...).

You're a bit more leggy than me. I'm 6'1" with a 34" inseam, but the GS feels roomier to me. I also have Ilium Works highway pegs on my GS for a different leg position on longer rides. Although, when I put my big feet up there at highway speeds, things get a bit loud ... I also feel a significant difference between normal and comfort in the ESA settings and am glad I have ESA. And, yes, the GS is not so much to look at. I actually have grown to appreciate it ...



But when I'm on the R, people get my attention so they can tell me how cool my bike is.



Anyway, it's great to have the problem of so much choice out there. Currently, I just don't have much of an incentive to sell either bike. My beautiful Porsche was totalled by a BMW 7 series running a read light (she hit the SUV and the SUV hit me head on).



So that means I have a lot of room in the garage. Maybe I should even pick up another bike just as an experiment.

[SDMAX]

So you have two different bikes; I vote for adding a Speed Triple; only skimmed your post but seems as if you are tall so make sure you can fit on the Triumph. You also need a Ducati. You need some kind of triple and some kind of "L" engined Duc. Trust me, you'll ride them all. You don't need the Triumph 800 ABS or XC as you have that covered with your two BMW's/

John H.
2007 R1200R
2009 Ducati Monster 696 with ECU, gear change and Terminoni's
2012 Triumph 800 ABS ( The "roadie" version )
2011 Victory Kingpin 8 ball ( you do need a big American twin you just don't know it yet)
2010 Honda 125, what started it all.

[objectuser]

I've not ridden a Speed/Street Triple ... I should do that this spring. The dealership here is cool about test rides. I did ride the Triumph 800 last year. I think the triple engine feels and sounds great. I almost bought one.

I also rode a Multistrada last year. What an engine! And that is a great bike. But that's basically in the same line as the GS. I need to ride a Diavel. That thing is supposed to be a whole new category. I do understand (read the Kevin Ash review) that they suck on the highway. But I wouldn't use it for that anyway.

I see your 8 Ball down there. My wife actually has a Victory Vegas. That is a great bike! She rode so many bikes, and was about to buy a Harley Fat Boy Lo before she rode a Victory. The center of gravity on those bikes is much lower and thus the handling is outstanding.

[omg1010]

I'd suggest to stick to helping the German economy. Buy another BMW like the HP4 and if you still have room buy yourself another Porsche ... I suppose the insurance cheque will help ...

Brgds
Oliver

[SDMAX]

They are all great bikes; I might have a little too much overlap between the R12 and the Triumph 800 ABS, the "roadie" version as opposed to the XC.

Ducati's are unique and great; I think all these bikes can safely be bought lightly used and save a lot of money.

Just got through adding pillion seat and passenger floorboards to the 8 ball so that my wife can ride behind me; the big twin doesn't even know she's there. I did replace the rear shock with one made by Progressive; way better.

You can have a garage full of bikes for the price of one used Porsche.

[objectuser]

I drive so little, it's hard to see buying another car right now. So I'm experimenting with only having bikes. I can cheat though: my wife has her car. Not sure the German economy needs my help that badly.

I technically still have the R up for sale, but just have little motivation to move it ... I'm enjoying it too much. Oh, and I also have my grandfather's 1968 Norton P11A, which mostly just sits there and leaks. So there are four bikes in the garage just now.

Anyway, I love the boxer engine, but I should probably have some more variety in the garage. The two most likely brands are Triumph and Ducati, though I have nothing against Japanese bikes (had a Versys, loved it).

The guy I bought the R from does a bike a year, or so it seems. He's had everything. But I think the constant churn would be a pain ... though maybe a sweet one.

[mogu83]

I don't understand people that do the bike a year thing. Number one is because I couldn't afford it, and second is it takes me a few years to get a bike to where I want it. That's where I am with my 07 for the last couple of seasons, everything is just right and riding it is an effortless joy. I have a few bikes and their all at the same spot, they fit my needs perfectly for the style of riding I want to do that day.

I've been up to seven bikes but that is too many for the average guy to care for IMHO. Three seems about right. I would like a dual sport but I suffer from a severe lack of discipline when my tires leave the hardtop.

[SDMAX]

I will never not own my R12; my Covette has been for sale at a consignment place and between riding and finishing up my office practice out of the bottom of the house, I keep forgetting to do something about the Chevy. Mostly if I have to four wheel somewhere I take my 2000 Dodge Dakota bought new, 55k miles; small block V8 which I will own forever as well.

I think you need a Ducati. I don't know them as well as I should. I think my son has an 848, it's in his living room now in the dead of winter in Anchorage. I got it in my mind I wanted a Monster about a year ago. I went to the Red bike store down the street from my house. Very dangerous. Rode every Monster iteration: 696, 796 and 1100; all geared way to tall. Then I found a lightly used 696 that had the gearing changed; the good Terminoni exhaust what sets off car alarms, gel seat, and a couple of other perfect up grades in RED. Bought that for I think 5500. I ride it all the time. It makes me grin.

I thought the 1100 was too close to the R12; and couldn't see all the money for 8 more HP for the 796 which looks visually better to some bc of single swing arm. The 696 still makes 80 HP and weighs under 400 lbs. Gonna invest some money in it soon as it needs the 7500 mile service which is pricey but in my budget. Desmo valves and "L" engine. People wave all the time; they don't know it's the smallest Duc, they just know it's a red Duc.

I don't go off road. I don't enjoy it; and, I'm still working on smooth and good cornering technique.

I think the Duc for noise and some kind of Triumph triple will be the key; Pals think my Triumph 800 ABS is too close to the R12; maybe, but they are still completely dfferent and maybe I could have just bought a Street Triple and avoided the Ducati and the Triumph 800; but, I'm happy where I'm at.

I recommend black and white tiles on the floor of your garage and flags across the back for country of origin. Complained to my wife that maybe I ought to get rid of one bike, but she said what would you do with the flag? Billy Joel would approve.

[objectuser]

It's pretty damn awesome that we can all talk about the plethora of incredible bikes available to us ...

Anyway, I was just reading Kevin Ash's review of the 2013 Street Triple R. Seems he liked it. That was one of the first bikes I fell in love with when starting to ride. Maybe I'll wait for someone to discard one of those and pick it up ...

Heading to the office tomorrow. Going to be a bit cool in here, so I'm taking the GS.

[SDMAX]

Sadly Kevin Ash passed yesterday; obit info all over the internet; he was young and had a young family. He will be missed,

[objectuser]

That's terrible. Looks like he was launching the new GS and had an accident.

[angellr]

Sad news indeed. Thanks for the heads up.

[Martyn]

He wrote for several publications, but for many years he championed motorcycling in The Daily Telegraph, a London newspaper considered by many to be the best written & a very objective paper.
They published this obituary.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituar ... n-Ash.html

There were also many comments on the various UK websites from fellow journalists & industry figures. the common theme was "Such a nice bloke. Will be very missed".