is this normal?

[hoflix]

I'm prepping for a long trip, and I was looking around the bike today, and noticed this:





I didn't have to time to go to my dealer (Long Beach BMW) yet... is it a warranty issue? (2008, 18k miles)

How about this?

[TAG-Caver]

It looks like a seal failed and it ain't normal. I can't imagine it wouldn't be covered under warranty, especially if your service was performed by a dealer.

[jed1]

It definitely looks like you have a seal problem there. I do believe that this issue will be resolved under warranty. I had a leaking seal in the counter balance shaft which was fixed under warranty without any problems at all.

Good luck with it.

[hjsbmw]

Looks like a transmission output / shaft seal leak. Doesn't look too drastic on the picture, but should be fixed. They're not supposed to do that.

The other one looks like it is leaking right out of the final drive, which would indicate an impending failure there. Do you feel play at the rear wheel when wiggling it by hand? I would personally not go on a trip like that, and actually wouldn't keep riding at all except for getting it to the dealer.

Both are warranty items. I'm wondering if there is a relation between the two failing or if it is a plain coincidence.

[hoflix]

Thanks guys. Just needed a confirmation.

And no, I'm not riding it right now. In fact, it's been sitting for weeks. I recently got a KTM supermoto and I've been riding that one lately (which is for sale, btw! )

[deilenberger]

I'll just note - what appears to be a rear drive seal leak, might be oil that has wandered down the driveshaft tunnel in the swing arm, and exited in the opening in the bottom just to the rear of the rear pivot.. then blown up to where it shows. In other words - might be a simple transmission output shaft leak. Rear drive might be just fine.

And if the rear drive IS leaking - that seal takes about 5 minutes to replace, and I haven't seen any indication that leaking from it correlates to rear drive failures, except when people don't notice the leak and all the rear drive oil leaks out. I do know of people who had it replaced and had no other problems with the rear drive.

[LumpyCam]

At the end of a recent trip (6,000km in 9 days) I got a bit muddy exposing something similar. I'll be taking to the dealer to rectify.

This is my concern: Will the dealer just replace the seal today, while any damage to the final drive might not appear until later, when the bike is inevitably out of warranty?

BTW - in the campsite I was as another BMW pulled in and the rider happened to run a shop. He said they replaced tonnes of final drives in the early days. He says with the 600/12,000mi lube change and a new oil BMW is now specifying the problems seem to have gone away.

My final drive oil was supposed to be replaced at the last service but I have reason to believe it might not have been.

[hoflix]

This is my concern: Will the dealer just replace the seal today, while any damage to the final drive might not appear until later, when the bike is inevitably out of warranty?

YES

[hoflix]

Oh yeah, and since I started this thread, maybe I should mentioned that indeed, my seal was changed under warranty.

The leak at the boot was no leak actually, just grime

[deilenberger]

At the end of a recent trip (6,000km in 9 days) I got a bit muddy exposing something similar. I'll be taking to the dealer to rectify.

This is my concern: Will the dealer just replace the seal today, while any damage to the final drive might not appear until later, when the bike is inevitably out of warranty?

Sigh.. what "damage to the final drive" - it's a seal that went bad. It happens. It takes about 10 minutes to replace that one (I know some IB riders who carry one as a spare..) It's not a big deal.

BTW - in the campsite I was as another BMW pulled in and the rider happened to run a shop. He said they replaced tonnes of final drives in the early days. He says with the 600/12,000mi lube change and a new oil BMW is now specifying the problems seem to have gone away.

My final drive oil was supposed to be replaced at the last service but I have reason to believe it might not have been.

Does the bill for the last service list the oil for the final drive? That's a big clue to if it was done.

And the rider was somewhat uninformed and partly informed. BMW has not changed the oil specification. They did clarify it. They sell the oil. It's BMW Synthetic Gear Oil 75W-90. They did change the "change recommendation" it no longer is lifetime oil - 600mile then every 12k changes. They also changed the fill quantity, which seems to help in avoiding what you saw.. they put in less oil, giving a larger air expansion chamber which lowers the pressure in the rear drive when it gets hot.

[deilenberger]

The leak at the boot was no leak actually, just grime

I had the same sort of grime at the same spot.. but mine was a 40,000 mile accumulation. I cleaned it off the other night and will be watching the area to see if and how fast it reappears. Mine wasn't quite as wet looking as yours - it looked more like condensed oil vapors. Wonder where the transmission vent is on these transmissions?..

[LumpyCam]

Sigh.. what "damage to the final drive" - it's a seal that went bad. It happens. It takes about 10 minutes to replace that one (I know some IB riders who carry one as a spare..) It's not a big deal.

I'd worry about any frictions points in any closed system that was loosing the volume or pressure of it's lubricant. Engine... not so bad 'cause you have 4l of the stuff, but the final drive is smaller and stressed and I wouldn't want to loose too much liquid happiness there.

Does the bill for the last service list the oil for the final drive? That's a big clue to if it was done.

Here's a scary story: So i go in for my 30k service and tell the guy that my brakes are still soft and we need to run some further diagnostics. They've already been flushed when I specifically asked for it at the 20k service (and it was on the bill) and that did not solve the problem. "Well, just because we said we flushed them doesn't mean they actually were. We found some guys that weren't really carrying their weight and fired them. Let's try flush them again." Now my brakes are awesome. If they didn't flush the brakes at the service after I said they were dangerously soft who knows what else they didn't do, including the final drive fluid change, even if it was on the bill.

Anyway, it's certainly not unheard of that what starts as a bit of seeping turns into a final drive failure (example) but I'll digress and get back to riding

Dan.

[JohnM]

Add me to the list.

Returned yesterday from the UnRally in North Carolina. 2100 miles of accumulated road grime on the swingarm of my `09 also helped ID a small coating of oil/grease around the circumference of the bearing area. But not nearly as bad as the photos here.

Just the same, I'll call my dealer this week to setup an appointment. Fortunately, she's under warranty. (Just turned 20K.)

BTW, anyone here have the white R12R at the UnRally? Didn't see the owner.

[redwing]

I had the rear seal on the motor go bad and replaced under warranty. The dealer said the bike was divided in two parts to replace the seal. They had pictures but didn't want to see them. The leak was motor oil not oil from the trans.
Eight hours of work so about $800.00 in Louisiana.

Robert