Gasoline quality

[lewellen]

Hi, folks,

Two questions / comments.

First, I know the R1200R manual calls for high-octane fuel, but also states that the engine control system will adapt itself if lower-octane fuel is used (at the expense of some power). I've never knowingly tried this out, but was wondering if anyone out there's run their R1200R on lower octane gas for an extended time. If you did, how'd it work?

Second, back when I started riding, I learned to avoid Shell gas because my '85 Nighthawk 650 did *not* like it - worse mileage and lower power. (my guess would be the additive package). What's your favorite brand of gas for your R1200R? I had been using Chevron, as the local station has separate hoses for each gas grade, but recently got noticeably better mileage with Arco. (Sadly there are none around me.)

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[Lost Rider]

I have been forced to use low octane fuel on numerous occasions in my travels, especially out west. I remember buying gas from some Indians out of a plastic can that looked like tea...
I didn't notice anything substantial like knocking or rough idle. As for performance I honestly don't remember , if it was real obvious I think I would remember.
I just finished watching Long Way Down where there was many of clips of brown "gas" being poured in their tanks out of buckets, and no mention of any issues. There's also quite a few Ride Reports on ADV with talk of nasty, dirty low octane gas found in 3rd world countries with no problems.
I think the FI computer does a good job...

I've never noticed any difference between brands of fuel, the only time I remember losing power was from altitude, anything over 7000 feet or so, and at 13,000 ft. you really have very little power.


-Joe



* this statement consists of some real world experience and some second hand hearsay, it's worth exactly what you paid for it...

[NAIAD]

To share personal opinions on brands of gas...I formerly drove ARCO tankers...and wouldn't even consider using their products in my vehicles these days. Similar opinion of Shell gasoline. Chevron, Texaco, and Union 76 only in my car, truck and bike. Opinions formed by discussions with a variety of well qualified mechanics and personal experience. Mostly anecdotal, but for instance my '98 F-150 went 120,000 miles before spark plugs were changed and FI system was cleaned...even though the Ford mechanics said this was just about impossible based on their shop experience. Majority of these trucks needed plugs around 70-80K. When my truck's injectors were cleaned at 120K the mechanic said they probably would have been good to go another 30K at least. (That truck has only had Chevron gas....it missed it's 90K tune up for plugs, etc., because I was in the hospital at the time and didn't realize the missed service until a year and half later. )

Former Ferraci Team mechanic I know would not allow anything other than Chevron gas in his personal bike...I believed him too.

I wouldn't run lower octane fuel in my bike unless it was an emergency type situation...like late at night and no other gas stations with premium fuel in the vicinity....but I'm just finicky I suppose.

Just my .02...

Ciao! BJ

[daveyator]

Well, while out riding today I filled up with Shell and my fuel computer went from 45mpg to 46mpg (not that its accurate or anything).

[Graf]

i have been using shell fo over 10 years (in cars and bikes)and have NOT seen any adverse effects.......my bike computer consistently shows 43MPG and with only 1700mi on the bike it will only get better.

.....and here is what I remember from watching one of those documentaries on history channel about gasoline. ALL gasoline is the same....it all come from one or the other field in middle east and is then mixed with whatever they have at the refinery at that time (maybe some oil from venesuela even)......the difference is in the additives and as you know there will be as many opinions about those as people talking about them. every company has a different blend of additives and asking any COMPETENT mechanic they will either offer you NO opinion at all or they preffer one brand or another for some reason of their own. but I have not seen two mechanics agree on one blend on another:-).....

in my humble oppinion all major brand (shell, chevron, 76, bp, etc....)gasolines are top quality....the biggest difference is their marketing machines......othervise they would all be using the same blends of additives.....and the markiting machines dont like that because they need the reason to say that they are better then the other guy.....

[RonR]

in my humble oppinion all major brand (shell, chevron, 76, bp, etc....)gasolines are top quality....the biggest difference is their marketing machines......

+1 to that. I have been using Shell in my cars, trucks and bikes probably 95% of the time over the last 25 years, mostly because there is a Shell station 1 mile from my house. As for mileage, I have not reset the mpg indicator since I got the bike in January and it reads 48.

[NAIAD]

It was just an opinion, and based on old facts...but it's just an opinion. In hot desert country of Nevada (again, in the old days) Shell gasoline would cause pretty severe pinging in air cooled motorcycle engines during the summer. Of the major brands available at that time it was the ONLY one to exhibit such behavior. It could be (and probably is) totally different now....but I still like Chevron fuels.

And all gas is the same...yeah, to a degree...but the additive's different refineries use make a considerable difference in final quality of the product at the pump. When I was with the bulk distribution business at ARCO new product was lab tested when it arrived (via pipeline) in the facility...if it didn't meet ARCO standards it was immediately sold off to independant jobbers. Where it went after that I have no idea but assume it went to discount retail outlets. (Hmm, where are those discount places now with gas a 4+ bucks a gallon? Dang!)

"COMPETENT" mechanic...Hmm. Of course the guy I was referring to had been inside many, many motorcycle engines, a former lead mechanic for the Fast by Ferraci team, and currently has his own very successful race tuning business. I believe he's at least fair to middlin' competent. I'm just relating what he told to a bunch of us motoheads during a tech session....

Ciao!

BJ

[RonR]

A real-world observation, admittedly non-scientific...On Memorial Day, I was filling up at the Shell station located at the base of the mountain on California Highway 2, better known as Angeles Crest Highway. I couldn't help but notice that there were approximately a dozen bikes of various kinds, from high-end sport bikes to tourers (and, of course, me on my Roadster) getting fueled up or waiting to do so. Across the street is a Union 76 station, same prices ($4.32 for premium...Yikes! ). The number of bikes? Zero. Whatever the truth about gasoline formulations or marketing, the SocCal motorcycling community appears to have made its choice, at least in this location.

[NAIAD]

The prices are pretty incredible, and doesn't seem like it's slowing down or leveling off. The only "advantage" I can see is it encourages me to ride the bike a bit more instead of using the Avalon or F-150 for a variety of errands. The disadvantages obviously far outweigh my needing an "excuse" to ride the bike.

Oddly enough on my recent cross country trip from Louisville to Seattle area some of the least expensive gas was in places the furthest from the refineries... I wonder how the oil company executives explain that one...

And at least I didn't have to pay 4.32 per gallon yesterday...it was only 4.26 at the local Chevron!

Ciao!
BJ

[lewellen]

Oddly enough on my recent cross country trip from Louisville to Seattle area some of the least expensive gas was in places the furthest from the refineries... I wonder how the oil company executives explain that one...

That, I usually hear explained by things such as the local EPA-mandated formulation is cheaper or they don't have as many formulations in a small area; or simply that the rents and costs of doing business are higher in urban settings.

Either way, I've noted this also.

And at least I didn't have to pay 4.32 per gallon yesterday...it was only 4.26 at the local Chevron!

Here's a fun one ... I'm in suburban Chicagoland as I type (bike is in Monterey, CA). Gas is actually more expensive here than in Monterey. Amazing.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[NeilS]

I won't endorse one brand over another, but it seems to me that the "name" brands are better than the "no-name" brands. The reason is simple: the branded retailers have a reputation to protect and they spend resources on development of useful additives and on quality control. Since we don't know who the "Brand X" retailer bought his last load from, we have no idea what's really being delivered.

It's also pretty clear that today's fuel, regardless of brand, is inferior to the fuels we could buy only a couple of years ago. The reason: ethanol. In a (IMO) misguided attempt to appease the farm lobby, the government has mandated 10% ethanol in much of the country's fuel supply. That has caused poor running (especially under low-temperature, high-humidity conditions) and fuel system corrosion (especially in motorcycles and other "secondary" vehicles). It has also caused increases in grain prices and an increase in demand for water in the farm belt (it takes about 30 gallons of water to make a gallon of ethanol).

It's interesting that Chevron published a technical white paper last fall on the evils of ethanol in gasoline. But that's recently disappeared from the 'net. Did Chevron learn something that caused their chemists to change their minds? Or was the removal a quid-pro-quo for going slow on a windfall profits tax?

[Bill Stevenson]

I am a chemical engineer and although I am not a in the gasoline business, I know the basics. Actually most of the posts here have it right more or less. All gasoline is refined to a standard specification so that no matter which refinery it was made in, the basic gas is the same. In fact the companies interchange their gas in various markets and it is almost impossible to know what company refined your gasoline on any given day. You think it is brand H, but it could be brand T, or S, or E or whatever and it changes over time as ships deliver to terminals and the gas gets hauled from seaside to distribution. The situation is quite variable from location to location. For example, California has major refineries in both the Bay Area and in the South so the situation there is different than it is in Florida where there are no refineries and gas arrives from Texas, from the Trinidad, and from the Mid-Atlantic.

The primary difference in the product at the pump is, as has been correctly pointed out, the additive package which is added at the distribution point before gas is trucked to the individual dealers. There is a difference in the additive packages, which can materially affect how well the gas works in your vehicle. For BMW cars and bikes, I have found over the years the following three brands seem to work slightly better than others: Sunoco, Chevron, and Shell. Not a big deal, but over many miles (say greater than 50,000) these brands will, if used consistently, result in much lower carbon deposits on valve stems. Run-ability seems better day in and day out for these three brands too.

As far as using regular is concerned, BMW engine management systems will sense pre-ignition (knocking) and retard timing to compensate. The result is a slight reduction in power, a slight hesitation just off idle, a slight decrease in mileage, and a slight increase in engine operating temperature. While none of these is a show stopper, I personally agree with the advice to use regular only in an emergency and to use the fuel that our bikes were designed to run on as a regular first choice.

Regards,

Bill