Dell's answer to the iMac

[garylspolar]

http://www.dell.com/content/products/pr ... bundlestab

[Biff's R]

It is amazing how much more aesthetically pleasing the iMac is. It is like comparing the styling of Ferraris and Fords.

[garylspolar]

Agreed! The fun starts early with a Windoze machine, however. It's quite a thrll to try and figure out which operating system will work best for you and your pc (amount of memory they can access next to OS's). 12 versions of Vista??? :

Windows NT®: 4GB

Windows 2000 Professional: 4GB

Windows 2000 Server®: 4GB

Windows 2000 Advanced Server: 8GB with PAE enabled

Windows 2000 Datacenter Server: 32GB with PAE enabled

Windows XP Home: 4GB

Windows XP Professional: 4GB

Windows XP 32-bit: 4GB

Windows XP 64-bit: 128GB

Windows Vistaâ„¢ Home Basic: 4GB

Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit: 8GB

Windows Vista Home Premium: 4GB

Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit: 16GB

Windows Vista Ultimate: 4GB

Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit: 128GB+

Windows Vista 32-bit: 4GB

Windows Vista 64-bit: 128GB+

Windows Vista Business: 4GB

Windows Vista Business 64-bit: 128GB+

Windows Vista Enterprise: 4GB

Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit: 128GB+

Windows Server 2003: 4GB

Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition: 32GB

Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition: 64GB

Windows Vista Server: TBD (This version of Vista is still being developed.)

[JCsman]

It is amazing how much more aesthetically pleasing the iMac is. It is like comparing the styling of Ferraris and Fords.

Or Ducatis and BMWs.

[Biff's R]

It is amazing how much more aesthetically pleasing the iMac is. It is like comparing the styling of Ferraris and Fords.

Or Ducatis and BMWs.

Very true, but I like my 1150R better than a Monster, and the new R1200S HP model over a 1098(due to less fairing).

I do like the looks of the Ducatis with half fairings.

[Biff's R]

Gary,
So they have a dozen different Operating Systems that still do not run as well as OS X. I hate my PC at work.

[NoRRmad]

Gary,
So they have a dozen different Operating Systems that still do not run as well as OS X. I hate my PC at work.

I hear that OSX.5 (Leopard?) is pretty buggy.

[Biff's R]

I just updated to X.4.11, and did not plan on moving to X.5 for a while. I have run everything else from the OS X series(actually go back to OS 7, and maybe 6), and always with less BS to deal with than my Windows machines at work.

Whenever my Windows machine is updated at work, all of my preferences always get screwed up, at home on the Mac there are not any problems(unless you try to bring an old(10+ year) machine from OS 8 to OS X(hardware is too old)).

[owldaddy]

Looks like another laptop to me......... Is it supposed to be a desktop model?
Don

[garylspolar]

Gary,
So they have a dozen different Operating Systems that still do not run as well as OS X. I hate my PC at work.

I hear that OSX.5 (Leopard?) is pretty buggy.

Yup. Working out the kinks.

Update: More Leopard Problems Plague Apple
Tony Celeste
November 22, 2007 09:53

Apple Leopard: From Questionable Customer Service To Questionable OS?
This is something I never thought I'd hear myself say - or maybe I should say, see myself type - about an Apple operating system: Mac OSX Leopard was released before it was ready. This operating system needed more testing on more systems with more hardware, and especially, more software configurations. The days of Apple computers operating with just the Mac OS and Adobe Photoshop installed, and practically nothing else to speak of, are long gone, and Apple knows this as well as anyone. This operating system was not properly beta tested, and Apple's customers are paying for it, with lost productivity and inoperative computers.

Perhaps the most troublesome of the problems has been a data loss issue caused by Finder, which performs a function on Macs similar to that of Explorer in Windows. In Leopard, when Finder moves a file from one drive to another, it deletes the file from the originating hard drive, without first checking to see if the file arrived safely on the destination hard drive. If anything goes wrong during the file transfer, such as a momentary power glitch on the destination hard drive, the file would then be destroyed on both hard drives.

Leopard users hoped that a free maintenance update (OSX 10.5.1), released on Thursday, November 15, would fix the issue, but Apple's statement accompanying the update is too vague to give a definitive answer. With regard to data loss, it states that "... a potential data loss issue when moving files across partitions ..." has been fixed, but moving files across hard drives is not addressed. Personally, I wouldn't want to bet my important data on that statement.

In an unrelated issue, data recovery firm Retrodata has found a disturbing hard drive failure rate in some Apple Macbooks. Quoting from the Retrodata Web site: "We at Retrodata believe that any sizeable manufacturer would by this stage be aware of such a problem and issue a product recall notice, or an offer to have the drive exchanged for a suitable alternative at their own expense." If you own an Apple Macbook with a Seagate hard drive, I strongly suggest you check out the details available at Retrodata.

As disturbing as data loss is, this next problem is the Apple version of a bombshell. Thanks to Leopard, the dreaded Blue Screen of Death is now a part of the Mac operating system. When I first tell this to Mac users that haven't yet upgraded to Leopard, I usually hear something like "Yeah, I get Blue Screens of Death when I use Windows on my Mac". No, that's not quite what I mean - Blue Screens of Death are occurring not only in Windows, but in Leopard as well.

The problem, to a certain extent, has been acknowledged by Apple. Although, in a move which I find somewhat amusing, Apple refuses to refer to the problem as a "Blue Screen of Death". Apparently they find the term, historically associated with Windows, somewhat distasteful. Instead, Apple simply uses the term "Blue Screen". The problem is recognized by Apple on this support page. On the far right, there's a link entitled "Blue screen after installing". Apple's automatically generated top searches also shows the # 1 search to be " 'Blue screen' appears after install". A Mac user in this thread actually had the audacity to use the term "Blue Screen of Death" in a post, which ultimately led to him or her being referred to as a "crackpot" by the Apple faithful.

Leopard has been plagued by a series of other problems as well. There are graphics artifacts followed by freezes, which may be caused by the new operating system's increased use of the Mac graphics card. A poster at AppleInsider.com reports returning four new iMacs because of this problem. A search for Freeze or Lock or Hangs in Apple's Leopard discussion groups returns the maximum allowable 500 hits.

There are also two bugs in the usually trouble-free Mac firewall. The first caused the firewall to be installed turned off by default, which some Mac users didn't find out about until they ran into problems. The second refused to allow some third party applications to access the Internet, including, of all things, World of Warcraft. Yeah, that'll be good for building support among gamers! The OSX 10.5.1 update claims to have firewall fixes, but again, it's not specific as to whether these particular issues have been addressed.

There are a variety of other reports, including a Mac Pro becoming completely inoperative after a Leopard upgrade. One user asked, Is it me, or is Leopard just a mess?. Apple locked the topic, preventing replies. Another user echoed my sentiments at the start of this article by asking Is ANY part of Leopard ready for release? Worst product from Apple so far. Here's a shock, the entire thread was censored. And amazingly, despite all of the above, and everything else we've seen go wrong since Leopard debuted 3 weeks ago, at apple.com/mac/, an Apple ad on the left side of the page says "Leopard just works".

I have no doubt that it will someday. But today, it does not.

I had planned on ending this article there, but I have one quick note for anyone who has had online conversations with Apple over issues such as those discussed above, only to find that Apple had disabled caching, so that you can't find a copy of the conversation in your browser cache, and also disabled printing and saving, so that you can't print or save the chat. I found an easy work around:

Double click on the lock icon at the bottom of the browser window. This opens a properties dialog with 5 tabs. Click the first tab. At the top of the first tab page is a URL. Select this URL and paste it in your browser. The URL contains a copy of your chat on Apple's server. Apple probably keeps it there for internal review use, so it certainly won't be there for long. It's probably a good idea to both print and save a copy of your chat immediately.

[MikeCam]

Well, who can refute a fully quoted article from an internet source?

Except for the fact that the author cites several separate incidents as if they have occurred to every single user and other usual hyperbole, the problems in his article have occurred to either the iMac and MacBook hardware (these, however, are not Leopard related issues) or have occurred to a significantly small number of users who had tweaked machines with specialized software from third party sources and other hard-coded changes on their machines or were simply using some program that made too many demands on their underpowered (CPU/RAM) and improperly configured box.

Sort of like the final drive failures in all our bikes.

For the record, I installed Leopard on 7 separate machines ranging from Macmini to MacBook and PowerMac. I did make the mistake of reading the pre-installation documentation, preparing my machine with a cloned back-up, updated versions of third party software, archived critical data on a second back-up and researched to determine what programs had not yet been rewritten to work with Apple OS X 10.5. The third party folks were about 50-50 on being prepared, but that is certainly not Apple's fault (or is it?).

In the event, all upgrades operated on the first try, without hiccups, hitches, or horrendous outcomes. All the machines are constantly on, constantly backed up, constantly used. All third party software that stated it was ready was in fact ready while those who stated their software was not ready for Leopard were correct. Everything is better than any Windows experience I ever have and better than Tiger, Panther and those other cats.

I guess I was lucky.

[Shaman]

Gary,
So they have a dozen different Operating Systems that still do not run as well as OS X. I hate my PC at work.

Sorry, but I've never had a single issue with my XP Professional.
Broadband with no firewall other than IP crossing based on having a modem and wireless router banded together. Running a number of media, gaming, and business applications. Shut down only for updates.

PCs 'at work' are pretty much always notably inferior to what a person can do at home.

[Biff's R]

I just hate all of the BS preinstalled software that currently comes on almost all Windows machines, unless you build it yourself. It is a PITA to get rid of.

[garylspolar]

I have been toying with getting a PC again (currently have iMac G5). I've had a bad power supply, that is the only issue. I had the choice of shipping it to Apple, or taking it to the Apple store on the other side of town. They did not fix the problem correctly the first time. The Techs also said they may find issue with the fact that I used aftermarket memory. Gimme a break. My memory was fine, in fact, it was the same stuff apple uses, from the same manufacturer. I just chose to save hundreds of dollars by purchasing it directly.

Mostly pleasurable experience with my iMac, but I am a gamer. PC rules in this department.

[R4R&R]

I just hate all of the BS preinstalled software that currently comes on almost all Windows machines, unless you build it yourself. It is a PITA to get rid of.

Format; Reinstall. I know it's a pain to do that to a 'new' computer, but at least I know it's the way I want it.

I have been toying with getting a PC again (currently have iMac G5). I've had a bad power supply, that is the only issue. I had the choice of shipping it to Apple, or taking it to the Apple store on the other side of town. They did not fix the problem correctly the first time. The Techs also said they may find issue with the fact that I used aftermarket memory. Gimme a break. My memory was fine, in fact, it was the same stuff apple uses, from the same manufacturer. I just chose to save hundreds of dollars by purchasing it directly.

Mostly pleasurable experience with my iMac, but I am a gamer. PC rules in this department.

I think that's one of the 'problems' Apple had - they never opened up their hardware to the open market. But IBM did, and look at them now - they're building PC clones, instead of IBM computers.

I'm slowly leaning towards the Mac platform, even though my career is centered around the Windows platform. I like the new Mac OS's are unix based, and I think that's why I'm leaning towards Apple. Although I have a buddy that loaded OS X on his PC.

[garylspolar]

Your buddy has OS X working on a PC? Details!

[R4R&R]

Your buddy has OS X working on a PC? Details!

He said it took a little tweaking, but can be done. I'll try to find out more and let you know.

[maduko]

I just hate all of the BS preinstalled software that currently comes on almost all Windows machines, unless you build it yourself. It is a PITA to get rid of.

I always order through Dell's small business department. It still has BS but not near as much of it.

www.dell.com/smb

[Shaman]

... unless you build it yourself....

And why not?
Lots of folks here tweak their rides and it is a lot more complicated than assembling a PC.

- Tower with Power, Fans, MB w/USB/ preinstalled
...and any other options you dont want to frig around with. Get onboard video/sound/Ethernet/Dial-up if you care less about how fancy they are...

Me?
- RAM
- Vid Card
- Sound
- HDD
- DVD-RW & CDROM-RW (so I can cross burn)
- Mouse/Keyboard
- Ethernet Card

Assemble the parts into the only locations they fit.
Insert Windows CDRom
Boot
Install Windows
Follow easy directions
Clean Slate PC up and running.

I install powered USB Multi-Port

Install the software of your choice (free or otherwise)
- Open Office works for 95% of home users and is free
- Firefox (use webmail to avoid virus)
- Ad-aware/Spybot for cleaning cookies fast
- AVG Antivirus

Go to downloads.com and grab a crapload of FREE programs and utilities to do whatever it is you need.

I have to say I am really surprised by the MAC attitude here.
Not that are bad machine, they are fine.
But for a group of people so involved in the smallest details of making their rides unique (in a non-chopper way), the acceptance of just pulling a PC out of the box and accepting it as a pre-packaged deal seems out of place somehow.

But then again, the R-series (and BMWs in general) are counter culture and so maybe that is where the MAC acceptance comes from?

I'll be advising my Dad to get a MAC mini next go round, so my sisters can not D/L stupid a$$ toolbars and weatherbugs and clock managers when they go to visit. But that is me being tired of cleaning up after sheeple PC users, not a problem with the PC or the OS.

Want a non-corruptible PC/MAC, get webTV. HAHAHA

[owldaddy]

I am using a G5 iMac, eMac, and a HP laptop. I just tried to set up a wireless network, it took 2 minutes to set up the iMac and eMac, I still haven't managed to get the laptop set up. It simply refuses to go wireless, or I have not managed to do the setup properly. If Mac's can be so easy to setup, why can't Windoz do the same for XP? Is there a real reason they are so complicated? BTW I have had my problems with the iMac, 2 power supplies, and a logic board have been replaced. All after the warranty expired, and all fixed by Apple free. The eMac has run flawlessly for 2 years. Maybe this is why we BMW riders like the Mac, we have come to expect our machines to run without being overly complicated. The PC has always caused me grief and frustration. I dare say that Dell wouldn't be replacing a logic board or power supply on a 2 year old machine free either. I bought my first Mac in 1995 (it is still running, Mom uses it to play games with now), I have used PC's at work, and I always have had issues with them. Maybe I need to take a computer course at the local JC. so I can use the laptop without pulling my hair out.
Don