Started sputtering after car wash, now won't start

[pandabearjohnson]

Hi all
I changed the brake lines on my R1150R (2001) the other day and then took the bike to a car wash to get rid any spilt brake fluid. On the ride home it started cutting out and died a block from my house. It restarted and I managed to get in the garage. I was hoping there was something wet and it would dry out overnight but no luck. (yes, it was a pressure wash wand and I was careful not to blast anything directly and yes, I won't ever do that again).

So...it seems likely that something got wet. Also, maybe there is a broken wire in the steering head. I had a bake fluid leak on the line to the front brakes and it was squirting brake fluid onto some wires. The plastic conduit is all broken down in this area, I haven't had a good search for exposed wires.

Also, it had been a good six weeks since I rode the bike and several months before that. I had left it on the side stand since the last ride so I thought maybe the side stand switch was a problem but initial inspection shows no prob there.

Yesterday I pulled the fuel tank and changed the fuel filter thinking maybe it was blocked after sitting so much, but no change.

I need to check for spark but don't have a proper spark plug socket that will fit the hole. On Monday I will get a spark plug and look for spark w/out removing the existing plugs.

Some questions:
What is a hall effect sensor and where is it?
What is a stick coil and why do I need a special tool to remove the spark plug cable?
Maybe I just need new spark plug cables?
How is the spark distributed on this engine?
Does anyone have a wiring schematic for this engine? I still haven't ruled out an electrical fault in the side stand / in-gear security circuit (even though I get a green neutral light on the console).

Any other obvious things I'm missing? The fuel pump is running.

Oh, one more thing, while I was putzing around yesterday I had the ignition on and I heard the fuel pump kick in and it ran for a long, long time. I looked at the console and noticed the tach was reading about 500 rpm while the fuel pump was running. I killed the ignition and after that the fuel pump acts normally (comes on when the key is on and the ignition is on and then cuts out after pressure it reached). That was kinda weird?

I hope you guys are actually out riding on this beautiful Sunday and not on an internet message board like this loser!

Thanks
Tony

[towerworker]

The Hall sensor is located at the lower front of the motor behind the crank pulley which also drives the alternator belt. The sensor is I believe a solid state magnetic switch which tells the ignition system when to fire the plugs. They have been known to get overly wet and will fail. That's one possibility. Your bike does not have stick coils (that's to your benefit), you have a conventional coil/ignition wire set. The stick coils are an ignition coil/spark plug cap all-in-one assembly. They are also a common failure point but you don't have them (came around in 2004).

It's entirely possible you have a broken wire in and around the steering head which comes from too tight zip ties which hold the wiring harness tight to the steering head. You might try moving the handle bars back and forth while trying to start the bike.

If you have a leaf blower you might try blowing a lot of air around the front pulley cover as well as anywhere water could have settled in. Maybe that will dry some moisture out.

[ron prior]

A bit [OT] but was wondering. Has anyone ever tried to convert a "stick-coil" version to a conventional system ?

[pandabearjohnson]

Tower Worker - thanks for the reply. My next move was to pull the front cover off and have a look around, I haven't done that before. I read one of Cycle Rob's old post about cranking the engine from the pulley and listening for a plug to fire. I've got to dig through the posts and find all the details.

The broken wire on the steering column sounds like the perfect suspect but I've stripped back all the old wire conduit material and had a good look and I can't see anything broken or exposed. Also, every electrical device works, all the console lights, neutral light, etc. I can hear and feel a solenoid click when I switch the ignition switch on. Fuel pump runs.

I tried checking voltage into to the coil/distributor module but I have such a cheap analogue meter I don't know that I got an accurate reading. I got about 10 VDC when the ignition switch was on and that dropped a couple VDC when I pushed the starter button. It might be time to invest in a slightly better meter.

Cheers
Tony

[towerworker]

A bit [OT] but was wondering. Has anyone ever tried to convert a "stick-coil" version to a conventional system ?

I've seen such a thread on the ADV Rider forum, I think the author found coils from a certain Ford V8 worked well. He mounted a coil under the tank with an appropriate plug wire and he was very pleased. Plus the coil was about $30.

[ron prior]

A bit [OT] but was wondering. Has anyone ever tried to convert a "stick-coil" version to a conventional system ?

I've seen such a thread on the ADV Rider forum, I think the author found coils from a certain Ford V8 worked well. He mounted a coil under the tank with an appropriate plug wire and he was very pleased. Plus the coil was about $30.

Humm surprised he didn't use the previous model coils...or a pair of dual tower coils.

[maccraith]

I did the same thing - power washed my '03 R1150R. It started and turned over twice and died. Then it would not start. I had no spark. I did a lot of research and finally came up with the following: http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oi ... ensors.pdf

It gives a complete explanation of what the Hall Effect Sensor is, how it works to produce ignition, how to test it and how how to replace it. It has a complete set of photos and diagrams to go with it. I did not try to order and replace the Honeywell electro magnets as is suggested in the article. I ordered a new Hall generator assembly from Euro Motoelectrics http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/ They were fast, responsive and the least expensive I could find. Additionally they were really nice people to deal with.

If you have no spark, I suggest you read the article above; I think it will save you a lot of time and trouble. Best of luck to you.

Hi all
I changed the brake lines on my R1150R (2001) the other day and then took the bike to a car wash to get rid any spilt brake fluid. On the ride home it started cutting out and died a block from my house. It restarted and I managed to get in the garage. I was hoping there was something wet and it would dry out overnight but no luck. (yes, it was a pressure wash wand and I was careful not to blast anything directly and yes, I won't ever do that again).

So...it seems likely that something got wet. Also, maybe there is a broken wire in the steering head. I had a bake fluid leak on the line to the front brakes and it was squirting brake fluid onto some wires. The plastic conduit is all broken down in this area, I haven't had a good search for exposed wires.

Also, it had been a good six weeks since I rode the bike and several months before that. I had left it on the side stand since the last ride so I thought maybe the side stand switch was a problem but initial inspection shows no prob there.

Yesterday I pulled the fuel tank and changed the fuel filter thinking maybe it was blocked after sitting so much, but no change.

I need to check for spark but don't have a proper spark plug socket that will fit the hole. On Monday I will get a spark plug and look for spark w/out removing the existing plugs.

Some questions:
What is a hall effect sensor and where is it?
What is a stick coil and why do I need a special tool to remove the spark plug cable?
Maybe I just need new spark plug cables?
How is the spark distributed on this engine?







Does anyone have a wiring schematic for this engine? I still haven't ruled out an electrical fault in the side stand / in-gear security circuit (even though I get a green neutral light on the console).

Any other obvious things I'm missing? The fuel pump is running.

Oh, one more thing, while I was putzing around yesterday I had the ignition on and I heard the fuel pump kick in and it ran for a long, long time. I looked at the console and noticed the tach was reading about 500 rpm while the fuel pump was running. I killed the ignition and after that the fuel pump acts normally (comes on when the key is on and the ignition is on and then cuts out after pressure it reached). That was kinda weird?

I hope you guys are actually out riding on this beautiful Sunday and not on an internet message board like this loser!

Thanks
Tony

[pandabearjohnson]

Thanks macraith, I found that same document in an old post by towerworker. Very helpful indeed. Unfortunately, I'll be away from home working for the next six or seven weeks so I have to button up the bike today and put it on hold until after Christmas. I might try to find some of those Honeywell 2AV sensors and repair my existing part. A quick web search says they are no longer in production, however.

I opened up the cable conduit at the plug-end of the HES but all the wires are intact. I wonder if there is often a problem in the short tail of a plug that leads to the Motronic? (I assume that is the Motronic computer upstream from the HES sensor? the big solid state box? Do those ever fail?) There are no serious kinks or crimps in the cable run and the exterior conduit is intact everywhere, not worn or stretched so I have a hard time imagining there is a broken cable inside. Anyway I'll make myself a test light as described in that document. I guess I'll need the test light I replace the HES to set the timing?

By the way, as a diesel mechanic I have to say what a joy it is to have petrol on my hands again! I've never gotten used to the smell of diesel.

[vwdoctor]

There are no serious kinks or crimps in the cable run and the exterior conduit is intact everywhere, not worn or stretched so I have a hard time imagining there is a broken cable inside.

You have to open it up. The outer jacket will still be fine even with inside insulation crumbling. Check the HES side from the plate to about 6 inches up, if there is anything it will be there.

[pandabearjohnson]

Check the HES side from the plate to about 6 inches up, if there is anything it will be there.

OK, that makes sense, I guess that would be the hottest part of the cable run.

[maccraith]

There are no serious kinks or crimps in the cable run and the exterior conduit is intact everywhere, not worn or stretched so I have a hard time imagining there is a broken cable inside.

You have to open it up. The outer jacket will still be fine even with inside insulation crumbling. Check the HES side from the plate to about 6 inches up, if there is anything it will be there.

As vwdoctor said, "You have to open it up." That was the advice given to me. I opened up the cable from the HES and found it crumbling in different places at least 6" up. I was surprised the bike had been running at all. The moisture from the power wash apparently was the last straw. It just shorted out the HES completely. If this is the case with yours, I heartily recommend you buy a whole new HES assembly. It most likely is going to be the cable you want; not so much the Honeywell parts. Once I saw the condition the cable was in, it was clear that a whole new HES assembly was called for. If you do buy the new assembly, be sure to look at the cable connector carefully. There are two available; you will want to be sure you get the right one. Here's a microfiche to look at: http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_cat ... at=12_1013

[Biff's R]

The number one lesson to be learned here is don't powerwasher your bike. A little simple green or S100 will get things clean enough with regular pressure from the tap.