fuseblock trigger wire woes

[Patch]

So I finally got around to roughing out my fuzeblock so I can get my Montana GPS power-switched. Ran the wires, roughed everything in and go to hit the "green/blue" from the diagnostic plug for the trigger.

The Posi-Tap that came on my harness (from TwistedThrottle) is blue and looks to fit the gauge of wire but damn if I can get it to actually tap. Several tries, cranking that thing down and then test = no juice. Pull it off and the wire is getting all crimped/pinched up but no penetration through the sheath. Theres obviously very little wiggle-room on that wire so I don;t want to destroy it but I'm wondering if there is an easy solution here like 'carefully peeling the sheath" but that sounds like a last resort to me.

I know that I could probably run to the accessory socket hot lead - but the trigger lead is too short to get there now and I don;t want to splice a longer lead if I don;t have to as I've never done it.

Too much daylight wasted - so I moved the fuse to un-switched and went for a ride. Damn good riding weather here in CT today ... but I'm still not done with my project...

Anyone have a solution that is so obvious I have missed it completely?
Thanks,

[Patch]

Sleuthing on YouTube and Posi_Tap website makes me think that the blue tap is simply too big for that skinny blue/green.

I do have a length of wire that I can reach the accessory hot-lead with and the posi-tap should fit better... thoughts befor I go and trim off the wire wrap and call it a day?

Other than the switched power being on for a bit after the key is turned off are there any issues going this direction? I know some have done it successfully but feel like I should ask in case there is something I'm missing.

Thanks.

[Neuro Rider]

Patch,

On a 2012 R12R, I used a red positap (20-22 gauge, with a single black cap) on the diagnostic plug power wire. The connection worked for powering a fuse panel relay (Eastern Beaver) with the first insertion, and it has worked without problems for the last year.

[dbrick]

Sleuthing on YouTube and Posi_Tap website makes me think that the blue tap is simply too big for that skinny blue/green.

I agree, the blue one is too large for the wire.

I do have a length of wire that I can reach the accessory hot-lead with and the posi-tap should fit better... thoughts befor I go and trim off the wire wrap and call it a day?

It'll work just as well, but puts the trigger wire in another location. That location may be better or worse. I dunno.

Other than the switched power being on for a bit after the key is turned off are there any issues going this direction? I know some have done it successfully but feel like I should ask in case there is something I'm missing.

My experience is just like Neuro Rider's, except the tap has now been in place for more than two years. I last week installed a set of Skene P3 lights in the back, and used a number of Posi-Taps. I think the connection quality is very good, and they don't seem to weaken the tapped wire as other style taps do.

[Patch]

Thanks for the replies... a quick after-hours headlamp session and I'm successfully tapped into the accessory socket lead. It fit much better and was as easy as I expected it to be. Quick meter test and I now have switched and unswitched circuits.

Not bad for a guy whos only real electrical experience is most at home in flipping a lightswitch

As for the location being out from under the seat time will tell ... but seems OK by me at this point. The lingering power "on" is going to be a slight inconvenience for the Montana - but it will do the job for the time being.

I'll snap a pic when I have a chance ...

Later!!

[ka5ysy]

On thing to be aware of using the accessory plug as a trigger voltage source: If you happen to use one of the float chargers that talks to the canbus, the accessory line will stay powered up and the fuseblock triggered keeping all accessories powered up.

FWIW, I have a phobia about using any kind of screw-in or other mechanical taps on any vehicle with vibration. Being a pilot and boater, I can tell you they will fail eventually due to vibration. Had a boat sink under me due to crappy connections made in the electrical system by "mechanics" who should have known better and used crimp connectors that failed causeing a total electrical failure in rough seas when I really needed a bilge pump running. My personal preference to any kind of taps is to do a direct connect and solder the connection, then use heat shrink tubing to protect it. It takes a bit of time to do it correctly, but you will have a superior connection not prone to failure or intermittent faults.

[KMalo]

Has anyone tried to tap into the tail light for the relay trigger?

I've read of using the parking light, accessory socket lead, and the lead in the connector -- but never the tail light.

What am I missing?

Thanks!

Chuck

[jkhomes]

Has anyone tried to tap into the tail light for the relay trigger?

Chuck, I used both the rear taillight and the brake light when I installed my Skene Design Photon Blaster for conpspicuity. It works great and dovetails nicely with the features of the device I was installing. My dealer said to stay away from the diagnostic plug, but didn't say why.

[websterize]

Going on 3+ years since taping the diagnostic plug wires w/Photon Blasters. No trouble that I'm aware of.

[Patch]

I also have not heard of any issues with tapping the diagnostic plug wire... in fact on ADV most GS riders are using that as well to no major reported issues. This was my plan right along.

I simply couldn't do it as the posi-tap that came with my harness was too big for that wire gauge. Once i get a smaller one I'll switch from the accessory socket lead to the plug. Or not...

[KMalo]

Has anyone tried to tap into the tail light for the relay trigger?

Chuck, I used both the rear taillight and the brake light when I installed my Skene Design Photon Blaster for conpspicuity. It works great and dovetails nicely with the features of the device I was installing. My dealer said to stay away from the diagnostic plug, but didn't say why.

Thanks, John. I think the tail light lead is the best route for me.

Chuck

[Dr. Strangelove]

fwiw
I disconnected the leads to the accessory plug, ran the ground to the ground on the eastern beaver acccessory fuseblock, ran the hot to the relay for the fuseblock, and ran an always hot from the fuseblock to the accessory plug. It may be better to run the relay tap to the low beam headlight, but what I have works fine. The low headlight does not go on until the engine is on and doesn't have the 30 second delay, I think. I thought the 30 sec delay to go off would be good, but I am not so sure now. Downside: if you're running a heated vest and accessory lighting the 30 second delay can drain the battery some when you stop. So, I have to remember to turn them off before the engine is off, or if I forget to do that, make sure all the drain is off before I attempt to crank her up. I have not had a problem so far with any of that though.
The reason I thought the 30 sec delay was a good idea was for the gps, but turns out it's not a big deal for me. YMMV

With my setup, as is, I can plug in the battery tender to the accessory plug and bypass the canbus system. I think I did some pictures of it a while back.
I may change the tap for the relay in the future, but not yet.

John

[Dr. Strangelove]

Followup to the above. It's now 6+ months and >10k miles using my setup and I want to change it.
The good
Everything works fine as I have it setup. The always hot, outside of can-bus, accessory plug is a nice feature and I use it often for tending the battery. I used no positaps, only soldered.
The Power Center 8 from Eastern beaver proves to be well made, seemingly sturdier? than the Centech I have on the 1150, esp in the connections for the circuits. With the Centech I was always afraid, though it didn't happen, that I would strip a clamp. The PC8 has a much more positive feel.
The bad
The delay in going off.

For me that is such a hassle. I don't like it at all. I thought it had some appeal when I first thought about it. It doesn't.
I have to remember to turn off the motolights when I stop, or remember to turn them off before I start otherwise they are draining the battery at stop, and burdening the battery at start. Not a good thing. Same with any heated clothing. Those two can add up to a not insignificant draw when battery's job one it to start the bike, everything else being secondary.
The delay is also a real hassle with my Zumo. Because it stays on for a while after the engine is off, and because it takes SO LONG to boot up, I want to keep it on at gas stops, picture stops etc. If I stop for gas I have to keep an eye on it for the power down/continue on battery power screen. There's a 30 second window on that one otherwise, you lose all zumo function when it turns back on until it boots and that is a long time (prob because I have my maps and music on an SD card). It would be FAR easier to have it power down on cutting the ignition and staying on zumo battery power.
Aside: I really do not understand the rationale behind the circuits staying on. Seems like a failed battery waiting to happen.
Obviously YMMV, but I am changing it

Proposed changes:
The formerly used circuit that used to go to the accessory plug will no longer trip the relay. I will disconnect it and maybe connect it to a standard cigarette plug, just as an extra, maybe wire it to my topcase and use it on an inverter to charge a laptop, very infrequently.
I have two choices for the trigger for the relay. Input welcome on these choices.

The blue green wire at the diagnostic plug.
Question: does it have the delay in going off? If so it is out.

[EDIT] I checked it with my voltmeter and it appears it does NOT have the delay
advantage is it's easily accessible.

The yellow wire to the low beam.
Not as easily accessible, but I have it apart and isolated.
Advantage: the low beam is on ONLY when the engine is running. It has been mentioned elsewhere that the low beam is off when the high beam is on. Not true on my 12. The low beam stays on as long as the engine is running, even with the high on.
Disadvantage: If the low beam bulb goes out, the circuit dies. It is easy enough to swap out a bulb on the 12 though--not like on the 1150--so things going off would alert me that the bulb is out.

My goal is to have the circuit go off when I turn off the engine...any experience appreciated and tia

John

[dbrick]

John,

I have a single-circuit Eastern Beaver accessory relay, clamped to one of the mid-frame cross tubes, and triggered by the diagnostic plug wire. This relay controls power to the built-in (by me) wiring (heat controller, power socket) for the heated jacket liner. On my '07, this circuit goes off immediately when the ignition is turned off.

I just added Skene Photon Blasters to the bike's front end, and got power from the running light in the headlight shell. I liked the close access better than running a wire back to the diagnostic plug. This circuit also turns off immediately when the ignition is cut. It was trivial to drill a small hole in the flat bottom facet of the headlight bucket, insert a grommet, and thread the wires into the bucket. I actually mounted all the connectors and the little control box inside the bucket, too.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Thanks for the reply, David.
Job is done. I checked the green/blue diag wire with a voltmeter and yes, as you say it only carries current when the engine is running. I played with the yellow wire to the low beam and wound up using it. The Can-Bus seems to tolerate the draw and the system now works as I want. Things go on when the engine is running, not just the ignition, so no draw when starting.
If there comes a time when the can-bus balks, I know I have Plan B and will use the diag wire. To exit the headlight bucket I drilled a very small hole up near the top. Just covered it's exit with some contact cement.

I too have my relay tie wrapped as you do, same place, hidden by the side panel.

If the headlight tap becomes a problem I will relate.

John