Trouble in Paradise

Topics related to the ownership, maintenance, equipping, operation, and riding of the R1200R.

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Lost Rider
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Trouble in Paradise

Post by Lost Rider »

I guess Karma's a bitch and I shouldn't poke fun at other bikes.... Lol
Keeping it real and just telling it how it is after 75,000 miles I no longer can say I've had no issues with my 12R.
Yesterday I was feeling a weird vibration for a minute that went away, today while on my way to a meeting I was on the highway and started to feel something very wrong through my right foot... I looked down to find the boot on the final drive gone and my drive shaft bouncing around. I made it to the next exit, pulled off and parked the bike in a safe place.
Obviously my drive shaft has broken and the bike wasn't going anywhere on its own.
So for the first time I called roadside assistance (progressive insurance) to come get my R1200R. (insert frown smiley)
At least it broke close to home and when it did, I was leaving tomorrow on a short camping trip with it to places much less convienient to break down.... Maybe it's good Karma that saved me after all...

Im not surprised or upset at all knowing where this bikes taken me, I guess I can break it, just took a while.

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Last edited by Lost Rider on Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by BigEasy »

Bummer #-o

Looks like the U-joint was pretty dry and it was likely the culprit not the shaft its self. Hopefully it won't be too big of an issue to keep ya off the road very long.
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Lost Rider
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Lost Rider »

Thanks, I'm already sourcing a used drive shaft, good news is the 2007 R1200R, RT, S, GS and GSA all use the same drive shaft part # so I have more choices for a used one.
A new one cost $725.00
Part # 26117665803

I wasn't aware that there was any lubing to be done on the U-joints, just the splines I thought. Did I miss something big?

After talking with my friends at A&S cycle I was told this was almost unheard of and could have been caused by the u-joints not being properly aligned last time they were put back on. "clocking" the u-joints they said.

More research needed, DIY to follow.



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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Acpantera »

I don't think it is possible to mess up the "clocking" better known as phasing. The shaft on these bikes are one piece from yoke to yoke. It appears that Hans or Frans did not apply enough lube at assembly time or you may have done a lot of riding in deep water. Sorry to hear of the failure, but thanks for sharing. I'm sure we all will be more alert to noises and vibrations as we rack up the miles.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Lost Rider »

I did do quite a bit of deep water crossing early in the bikes life, though it's been pretty dry overall for the last few years.



It seems like there was more play than normal lately and I was just getting all the fluids together to do a full service where I might have found this failing before it did, not that I could have repaired it. In the second and third photo below you can see how it looked like it's been wearing or pounding that nub that goes into the U part of the joint and where it eventually broke through. I wasn't the last person to work on/service the FD, won't let that happen again, though I don't belief there's anyone to blame...
I feel rather lucky though as it was not much of a hassle to get the bike home. I can only imagine if this happened tomorrow in Sequoia NF...

I like being the first in many things, this would not be one of them. Ride it like you stole it for 5 years and something is bound to happen, I'm glad this is an easy and relatively affordable fix though. :D

More carnage.


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r1200rclassic
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by r1200rclassic »

seems like an awful lot of oxidation on that u-joint.. I wonder why? They're lubed from the factory (or should be).. is there a service interval to open and inspect/lube that shaft I wonder?
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by MTBeemer »

Obvious pilot error. :badgrin:
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Lost Rider »

r1200rclassic wrote:seems like an awful lot of oxidation on that u-joint.. I wonder why?


to help some newer owners not worry too much, this might have something to do with it....



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But it did look like this a lifetime ago....

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Though I haven't done what many others on GS's have done with the same shaft drive and many more miles than myself.

MTBeemer wrote:Obvious pilot error. :badgrin:
Yeah, probably. 8)


While I'm happy to share my experience good or bad, my fault or not, and am very pleased where this bike has taken me, I wouldn't chalk this up to any flaws with the bike.
I ride it more than I spend time worrying about taking perfect care of it, it's a tool not a jewel.... now I pay for my ways. You guys really have no idea how I push this bike, my photos don't even touch the surface of what I do on this bike daily, it's not all crazy riding, just very personal. I don't think that means jack squat really, I am who I am, like it or not. The internet is not a popularity contest and more than anything I'm just myself and speak my thoughts unfiltered, as why I'm sharing this less than positive event in mine and the 2007 R1200R I call Roadie the Roadster's history of living life my way. I'll be able to look back at this and laugh someday when I can't ride anymore. I have a very personal relationship with this bike.
The day Roadie broke, it's a sad day really.


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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Woland »

Weird defect. Doesn't seem like a likely failure. You probably got some kind of contaminant in there, leading to increased wear, increased play and in turn to increased load on the weakened parts and thus a failure.


I'm sure its karma that it happened where it did and that it turned out to be a relatively cheap fix ;)
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Shakey »

Get well soon Roadie :cry:
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by deilenberger »

Lost Rider wrote:Thanks, I'm already sourcing a used drive shaft, good news is the 2007 R1200R, RT, S, GS and GSA all use the same drive shaft part # so I have more choices for a used one.
A new one cost $725.00
Part # 26117665803
That's why when a used one was available for $100 I grabbed it. A local club member had one go on his '07 RT.. while I was riding with him. Luckily - recovery truck showed up quickly, and it was only about 60 miles from his home.
I wasn't aware that there was any lubing to be done on the U-joints, just the splines I thought. Did I miss something big?
Nope. What gets missed is making certain both accordian like boots are in place and sealed to the swingarm/tranmission/rear-drive. On his - it also showed quite a bit of rust.. but his rear boot had been out of place for a while, and he isn't just a fair weather rider. Since I know you tend to ford steams with your R - it's doubly important to make sure the boot are in place, with the correct plastic expanders inside, and with them in the correct position. It's fairly simple to get them in place - but it has to be done carefully, with some grease on the boot where it seals to the rear-drive/swingarm. The boots make the swingarm pretty much a sealed compartment, and water (even fording streams) shouldn't be able to get in. Yours shows water did get in..

FWIW - I checked mine about 3 weeks ago before leaving on a trip while I was changing the rear drive oil, and mine looked brand new (at 54k miles,) and plenty of grease was still in the splines and sort of slathered over the U joint. That might be because I have a spare shaft (Eilenberger's Law of Parts) - or it might be that I was really careful making sure everything was sealed up whenever I had it apart to change the rear drive fluid.
After talking with my friends at A&S cycle I was told this was almost unheard of and could have been caused by the u-joints not being properly aligned last time they were put back on. "clocking" the u-joints they said.
A&S is talking out of their asses. The shaft can't be disassembled, and the U joints can't be "clocked" (aligned so one end makes up for the motion of the other end.) Sounds like someone trying to sound expert who isn't. Only shafts that can be disassembled can be clocked. The R12 shafts can't be.
More research needed, DIY to follow.

A&S was right in this not being a "common" failure.. so a good used one shouldn't be too hard to source. The new price from BMW is just silly IMHO.. but what do I know?

BTW - wouldn't be a bad idea to slather some grease over the U joint area before installing the replacement. Can't hurt - and might help if water somehow gets into the swingarm.

Good luck!
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by cgl »

Lost rider,

I really love what you did with Roadie together! And thanks for sharing your experiences.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Acpantera »

What gets missed is making certain both accordian like boots are in place and sealed to the swingarm/tranmission/rear-drive. On his it also showed quite a bit of rust.. but his rear boot had been out of place for a while, and he isn't just a fair weather rider. Since I know you tend to ford steams with your R - it's doubly important to make sure the boot are in place, with the correct plastic expanders inside, and with them in the correct position. It's fairly simple to get them in place - but it has to be done carefully, with some grease on the boot where it seals to the rear-drive/swingarm. The boots make the swingarm pretty much a sealed compartment, and water (even fording streams) shouldn't be able to get in
I really don't think the boots are meant to seal or protect the components in the rear arm, It's more for the looks and to fill the pivot gap. If you inspect the rear drive from the bottom side you will see a 3/4" hole in the bottom of the final drive cavity to drain any fluid that may get in there(hardly an air tight seal). The u-joints are the automotive type and quite weather proof, just like many cars and trucks use. Each trunnion of the joint has its own seal to keep lube in and contaminants out. The grease in any component has a service life, it all depends on temps, speeds,loads, integrity of the assembly and how well it was put together. I'm sure that the lack of, or improper maintenance is not the fault. After 75,000 miles of hard use I would chalk this up to fate.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by deilenberger »

Acpantera wrote:I really don't think the boots are meant to seal or protect the components in the rear arm, It's more for the looks and to fill the pivot gap. If you inspect the rear drive from the bottom side you will see a 3/4" hole in the bottom of the final drive cavity to drain any fluid that may get in there(hardly an air tight seal). The u-joints are the automotive type and quite weather proof, just like many cars and trucks use. Each trunnion of the joint has its own seal to keep lube in and contaminants out. The grease in any component has a service life, it all depends on temps, speeds,loads, integrity of the assembly and how well it was put together. I'm sure that the lack of, or improper maintenance is not the fault. After 75,000 miles of hard use I would chalk this up to fate.
Look a CLOSE look at your rear drive again. Stick your finger in. Wiggle it around. The 3/4" hole does NOT go into the universal joint area. When the rear drive is swung down to change the oil, there is no corresponding hole on the interior - that is sealed by the boot. The rubber boot makes it a sealed space.

If you look at the photo:

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You'll see the inner ring part of the casting where the rubber boot seals to.. the round part with grease on it (which is correct - the grease seals the rubber up.) The rubber boot has a corresponding round protrusion that seals to this ring (when installed correctly.)

The spline and universal are actually inside the boot area (clever design since the axis of the universals are in line with the pivot points, meaning there is virtually no change in length between the transmission and rear drive when the suspension moves up and down, so much less likely to have spline wear as earlier BMW drives were prone to.)

The rubber boots are there to seal the swingarm up tight - that's why the plastic retainers are installed inside them. The difference with the U joints in this application and a car - if water gets into the swingarm area due to a poorly installed boot, and the bottom of the accordian boot is still sealed (it usually is - the top is the part that doesn't seal too easily) - then the water stays in the swingarm, and starts rusting the U joint. Once the trunnions are rusted, the seals rather quickly go, and next are the bearings. If you look at Joes photos you can see corrosion on the trunnions. The only way that can happen is if the seals go.

On a car the universal joints are not in a semi-sealed enclosed space that can retain water.. so the rust doesn't get a chance to start.

To make sure it seals up correctly - I always seat the boot first on the rear-drive, and make certain the rubber is around the ring and the plastic expander/retainer is in place. The joint to the swingarm itself is easier to get correct when the rear drive is then swung up into place.

Did Joe give it hard use? Yup.. but in this case - some sloppy shop work (Joe mentioned he didn't do the last rear-drive oil change) was likely the cause of the failure. I'm sure if it had been rusting that badly when Joe changed the oil himself prior to the shop doing it that he'd have noticed it.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by winkeldc »

I don't mean to quibble about the hole at the bottom of the swing arm, but I would like to understand this and I haven't changed the fd oil yet. My boot is always coming loose. On the second picture of the OP, there was the shot of the u joint from above and the hole in the bottom of the swing arm is visible. Was the arm disassembled in that frame or should it not be a concern that my boot is often displaced?
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by deilenberger »

winkeldc wrote:I don't mean to quibble about the hole at the bottom of the swing arm, but I would like to understand this and I haven't changed the fd oil yet. My boot is always coming loose. On the second picture of the OP, there was the shot of the u joint from above and the hole in the bottom of the swing arm is visible. Was the arm disassembled in that frame or should it not be a concern that my boot is often displaced?
That photo shows the rear drive, looking at it from the front of the bike. The hole is visible - but it is sealed from the actual swingarm area by the rubber boot sealing to the inner ring on the rear-drive.

And yes - I'd be concerned. As a guess - either the plastic retainer isn't positioned correctly, or a hamfisted mechanic managed to break the retainer while installing the boot (done at a dealer service?) Let me see if I can find the retainers on REALOEM..

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=33&fg=15

Shows the rubber boots (Parts 10 and 11) - but unfortunately (and I seem to recall this from a discussion on another website) - the plastic retainer is only sold as part of the (very expensive) boot. If it's broken you're out a bit of money to fix it. You can clearly see the round sealing sections of the rear boot that make up the closed swingarm in the drawing.

Looked on Max BMW's site, and they don't show the plastic retainers as a PN either - but they do have a nice photo of the boot.. the end they're showing is the end that joins to the swingarm, and the plastic retainer can be clearly seen (mine is white on my bike, the one they show is black, but it has the four retaining teeth that sort of lock into the swingarm..):

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You can also see one of the "teeth" for the end that goes into the rear-drive circular boss..

BTW - it did take me a while to suss out what the engineers were doing with the boots, but once I did it seemed a fairly brilliant design to me. Simple, no parts to wear out, and would keep the driveshaft in a dry enclosed space away from crud.. clever engineering. All they missed was a way to make it so hamfisted mechanics couldn't screw it up.. and I guess the old saying "Make something idiot proof and along comes the greater idiot" applies there..
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Acpantera »

Wow, i really never paid that much attention to the boot set up, and i have serviced my own fd too. Fortunately I got lucky with my in stall, the shaft still looks new(ish). The GS guys that ford a lot of streams must really have some problems.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Lost Rider »

Thanks for the replies and supportive comments, and lots of good info once again Don.


There's lots of history with this area of the bike, besides my endeavors.
I forgot about it, but remember when my friend was in Mexico on my bike and had the bolt that held on the FD come out?....
Well I'd imagine this was caused by that incident, whether by actual damage to the U-joint, or from all the crap that got in there, or by his wrenching.
He was such a dumbass he rode the bike with the FD flopping around only supported by the bolt on the top for a while before he stopped.
But then again I was the real dumbass who loaned it to him....




photos he took.
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Woland »

Now that cant be good for anything ;) Still, the fact that your bike's been around kinda lends it a certain charm doesn't it? While I love my pinstriped R probably as much as you do there is something about racking mileage and abuse on a bike that I really really like, especially if its your bike ;)

I had a lovely 450km ride on my bike today, going north from Gothenburg along the coast to Strömstad and back with some nice detours, a good meal, coffee and ice-cream, a little rain as it should be in Sweden in June, but mostly sun and decent temps ;) Also got the chance to find out the top speed with panniers on in about 7m/s headwind, its about 196km/h

I had a pretty good day all in all :)
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Re: Trouble in Paradise

Post by Lost Rider »

Woland, how dare you come in here talking about such a nice ride without posting any photos.... ;)
Do you know I used to date a nice Swedish girl and know exactly where you're talking about?.... beautiful countryside... though I did more snow machine riding than bike riding while there.



I should have my replacement drive shaft and boot Monday or Tuesday.
It seems whole swing arm will need to come off to change it, as I can't seem to slide it out the rear without it getting stuck.

DIY to follow.
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