Skill vs Technology

[OU812]

I made it too old, sorta.

[Jed]

The only issue I can see with ABS is, you will not be able to trail brake like the pros.

I thought the current ABS would not interfere with trail-braking except at the very limits of traction (lateral acceleration + braking force < available traction) ?

ABS has some issues in the dirt. Too bad you can't turn it off on the R1200R it would be a better dirt road bike.

I always thought it was a shame that BMW didn't provide the capability to switch ABS "off" as on their Dual Sport and Sport bikes. Maybe it's possible as an unofficial mod? It was in part the horror stories of ABS kicking-in when not desired that "pushed" me towards a non-ABS bike. Rightly or wrongly, the idea of not being able to lock my rear brake under those types of marginal traction conditions kept me away from ABS.

cheers,

[OU812]

I guess the ABS can be set for the ride you want with sport bikes? Not so with sport tourers.

[mogu83]

The only issue I can see with ABS is, you will not be able to trail brake like the pros.
I will keep my ABS.

You can trail brake as long as you don't lock the rear brake up. If you trail brake on a road race course it will kick the hell out of your lap times.
A old story goes that a pro road racer couldn't get his lap times to where the crew chief thought they should be, so they removed the rear brake pedal. The lap times dropped to the expected times.

[OU812]

From what I have seen,the rear comes so close to locking up that the ABS would kick in while the rider was trail braking. But I am no expert. So what you stated makes sense.

[Chumley]

I would like to respond to an earlier post about the power of modern brakes and how that can possibly be a liability. I agree that modern brakes are incredibly powerful but that aspect, in the case of the R1200R, has also gone hand in hand with incredible braking feel and forgiving tires. Wet weather is the place that I think most all of us can agree that ABS really presents it's benefits. Maybe you can ride at a higher average speed with ABS but I generally slow down a bit anyway. There are so many variables in traction, both braking and general adhesion for forward/lateral motion, that it's hard to discuss them all but I know I become much more careful in the wet or possibly icy conditions. poo can happen any time. Brake feel is really important to me. If you had BMW's 1st generation servo assisted ABS brake system you really needed the ABS system to overcome the overwhelming lack of feel at the limits. The system had very very poor brake feel, the second generation was better but not great. The last generation benefits from the lack of the servo system and delivers normal brake feel, like all of the other manufacturers had from the beginning with their systems. Good brakes are just important.

As far as trail braking, isn't it a function of your comfort with rear brake use? Don't some tracks benefit more from trail braking than others? It would seem that there are times you'd want to keep some weight on the front end for feel/grip and not want to settle the bike with the front brakes since they tend to stand the bike back up. Maybe it's a matter of preference but then I am not racing around like that anymore.

The demeanor of this thread has become very different. The mis-quoting has ceased and the tone seems reasonable. When looking back at the original thread it appears that a somewhat over reactive post immediately after my first post set this thing off. Maybe that's all it was. Doesn't appear to be happening here anymore. Maybe a dialog can be had.

Maybe now I can ask a question I have been saving...

If ABS were no longer available, for whatever reason, would you stop riding motorcycles?

[mogu83]

The demeanor of this thread has become very different. The mis-quoting has ceased and the tone seems reasonable. When looking back at the original thread it appears that a somewhat over reactive post immediately after my first post set this thing off. Maybe that's all it was. Doesn't appear to be happening here anymore. Maybe a dialog can be had.

I think we left that on the other thread

Maybe now I can ask a question I have been saving...

If ABS were no longer available, for whatever reason, would you stop riding motorcycles?

That's easy - If you ran marathons and they stopped making Nike's would you stop running?

[OU812]

Why stop? Only 2 bikes out if 40 that I have owned had ABS.

[iowabeakster]

There seems to be a bit of confusion, due to different systems on different bikes.

Steve (OU812) has a RT. So his ABS brakes are "fully integrated" (rear brake pedal does operate the front brakes). So his comment about trail braking is true for his bike. On the R1150R, the rear pedal does not operate the front brakes. They are "partially integrated". So, trail braking can be done normally.

I am not sure about the R1200R (help from the R12R guys?). I assumed that they are also "partially integrated".

Anyway, locking up the wheel while trail braking could be be a painful mistake. ABS could only help avoid that mistake.


edit- I was reading about trail braking. It seems like all braking (front or rear) while leaned over, is considered trail braking. I always thought of trail braking as lightly riding the rear brake after turn-in, to tighten up the line, and to keep the front tire firmly planted.

Hopefully, some of the track-day riders can give some input.

[OU812]

I don't trail brake unless I am in the dirt.

Close as I got to a "hole shot".
The pros know how to do it effectively.
me, not a clue....

[OU812]

I saw a post on some other forum about trail braking with ABS. I guess it is possible......