12R,1150R,800GS ???

[LostViking]

Hello folks,

I'm in the difficult but pleasurable position of having to pick a new bike. I believe it will be my only bike for the foreseeable future. So I need to get it right. I've done my research so to speak. I've given serious thought to lightly used 1150R, Then I test rode a 800GS loved it in the dirt. Not sure about the tarmac. I put about 60 miles on it. I actually owned a 1150R but sold it too quickly when I decided I had an illness. TMB Syndrome. And everyone raves about the 12R being all the 1150 was only better. I also had a 800ST that I rode quite a bit. Had a Wee Strom. liked it but it didn't stir me.

The good news is I don't think I can go wrong. I keep telling my self I'll use the GS more on the fire trails and back roads, and double tracks around here. Also I plan on heading out west as soon as my remaining real estate here in NY is sold. Looking at northern Idaho/Montana. So I need to factor that in to the decision making process.

I know the 12R will work for some dirt as Chi-Town can attest. Does he still have his 800GS?? Thought about going to the big GS in the low version, but have kind of ruled that out. My head just keeps bouncing between the main 3 I've mentioned. I had a scambler also It worked well on back roads and mild dirt but I found it under powered on the road. Kind of like to stay with the Blue/White propeller if possible. JUst looking for some feedback from people that may have traveled a similar path.

Thanks,

[CycleRob]

LostViking,
Given your advancing TMB syndrome (TooManyBirthdays), I believe the bike's weight, ease of maintenance (& need of repair!) should factor in more heavily than you realize. From what you and I know of your select group, I believe Boxer's latest choice is the answer. Both He and I used the very same criteria you mention, plus MSRP to choose our Rotax powered bikes. When you factor in the F800 line's high 60+MPG fuel economy which will soon be a huge blessing, a lack of costly FD/Spline problems, summer overheating or winter over-cooling and the benefit of a much lower MSRP . . . it's almost a given.

To be fair, I partially contributed to Phil's bike choice decision within "propeller brand" and the field logically narrowed to 2 bikes, both with the F800 engine.

I'm a little surprised the too tall 650 Wee Strom didn't leave a better impression on you, with it's stellar V-Twin and huge happy following it enjoys.

.

[LostViking]

Does acting like a kid reverse TMB. I agree about the Rotax being bullet proof. I'm also slightly worried about the FD issues. I also like the idea of being able to change FD ratios via sprocket size.

The Wee deserves it's praises. It really is a fantastic bike. Easy to maintain, fun to ride, and zero issues. But bikes are about passion and I found it lacking there for me.

Who's this Boxer guy? I'll have to do some more searching.

Thanks for your input. it is greatly appreciated.

[CycleRob]

He'll chime in eventually, but until then try this:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18513

[Boxer]

I have the "girl" version of the F800GS. You know...the one they call the F650GS since the F650Gs is now the G650GS and the 650 is really an 800cc engine thats tuned down and the old 650 is a single cylinder that is also about as bulletproof as they come. I have owned and ridden both version. Its all so confusing and BMW will eventually regret that particular style of naming these two bikes. I know, I know...TMI...

Now would I get the same bike again if I had the chance. A resounding YES, with caveats. I wanted a little bit lower and smaller bike than the big boxer twin. I wanted a water cooled engine since I find myself in tight traffic situations in my travels and I really hate worrying about overheating or having to shut off the engine and coast slowly along...paddling with the 1 mph traffic jams. I wanted a bike low enough to flat foot but not so low (like the old Thumper 650) that the things drags on every corner. Not good. The F650GS twin provides all that. Rob tells me the engine is sound and durable with proper care. I trust him on that one.

I chose NOT to get the higher F800GS version simply because it felt too tall for me when I test rode it. The F650GS twin is at least 2" shorter and with the same engine (albeit tuned down to 71hp) so I decided on it instead of the taller 800GS. Saying that, now I sometimes wish I had the taller bike. It just seems more "manly" and robust than my smaller F650GS twin. It has higher ground clearance, thus the taller height, and the look and feel of the bike is more masculine and robust...to me. If someone came to me and said, "Here, I'll trade you this 'slightly lowered' F800GS for your F650GS." I think I would do it, if all else was equal.

The R1200R is a sweet bike! It also was a strong temptation for me. It has the appeal of the 1150 but is lighter with fewer problems overall. One thing I greatly miss about my old R1150R is the comfort it offered on the highway. You can't beat that telelever suspension up front, and compared to my current bike, the 1150 was like a Ford LTD compared to a Mustang...even with the 75,000 mile shocks! :-)

Hope all this helps.

[Mollygrubber]

If you're doing a fair bit of backroad riding, I think the F800GS is a better bet. I have a 2009 R1200R which is incredibly good on pavement, not so much on dirt - although it currently has the stock suspension. Chitown seems to have fun on dirt with the Ohlins...

I'm actually toying with the idea of an F800GS for a long, rough trip.

A bike you have not mentioned but which is rabidly adored these days is the Versys... seems to tick all the boxes at a lower price point.

It's a tough decision, isn't it? But fun!

Peter

[LostViking]

Thanks for the replies and the "Open Minds". One reason I posted this here is the thought that many of you would have owned an RR in one form or another. And now at least thinking about the F series.

I have actually given the Versys heavy consideration. Owners seem to love them. The Givi E35s work well with the bike. Which leads me to the R12R on page 4 of the picture thread in that forum with the color matched Givi bags,beautiful work. That set up is very nice looking.

I agree the Rotax is a solid platform. And the 800GS can be had cheaper than the R12. I have sat on the F650(800). Like it too. Tubeless tires are always nice. I wish they had just left it an 800 and went more to a road dirt split with it. USD forks two rotors up front. Maybe the F800R will fill that gap. I liked my ST just needed a little less sport oriented riding posture.

Again thanks to everyone for the quality help. I will continue to post as I work through it.

[CycleRob]

LostViking,
From your post above I deduced you prefer USD (UpSideDown) forks. IMEO, that would be a poor choice for a street or dirtbike -unless- you are competing on a racetrack where the USD fork's better "performance edge" will matter. I say it's a poor choice for a StreetBike because of the USD fork's vulnerability to very expensive damage. Remember that "very expensive damage" phrase. Why? The cost of parts that need replacing is huge and the more difficult replacement procedure takes longer. The USD forktube's seal slider area is down low, well into the dirty water wheel spray zone. Compounding that is the USD fork's uncooperative, difficult access, discouraging it from being kept clean. It's hard to see and access the bottom inboard tube surface, hidden by the fender and brake rotor, where most every USD fork SportBike rider never cleans. Only the bling-oriented clean freaks cleaned it religiously. What happens is the dirty deposits very quietly work their dirty deeds, all aimed at scratching the beautiful chrome plated surface AND wearing away the forkseal. The fork tube damage is discovered after the oil leak, which is already way too late.

My years experience working on SportBikes every workday (1994--2005) involved pointing out and demonstrating just how to do the important, must-do items of owner maintenance to the departing service department customer. Two of the most neglected areas on every chain driven M/C are (lubing/adjusting) the drive chain AND keeping the forktube seal travel area as clean as possible. Almost without exception, the final reply afterward was variations of: "Why didn't the dealer tell me this stuff the day I picked my bike up?"

Why, indeed. The above topics are why I chose the Hi-Tech, belt drive, conventional forked F800ST. BTW, the R1200R's stellar TeleLever is a real standout when it comes to putting the forkseal in a very protected area, way up high.

Rant Off, Back to the original thread topic . . . .

.

[LostViking]

Rob,

I would not call that a rant. Rather a frustration from people over looking the obvious.

I went to my local dealer today(2.5 hours away) Took the F650 Twin and the R12R for a spin. The 1200R was sweet. The 650 had issues. It was used but only ha 2500 miles in it. About half way back from a 20 mile ride the fan came on. Shortly after that the warning lights started. It was overheating. It was 17 degrees. also had a major flat spot between 4500-5000 on the tach. almost like it was quitting. But that being said I thought there was a lot to like about this bike.

They had a sold orange 800 and a new white one. Both quite sharp to look at.

I came away wanting both the 800GS and the 1200R. More work to do.

[CycleRob]

"About half way back from a 20 mile ride the fan came on. Shortly after that the warning lights started. It was overheating. It was 17 degrees."

Since you are in the Western Catskills, I assume that's 17 degrees Fahrenheit (-8.33C).

Overheating in 17DegF happens when:
-- The watered down coolant in the radiator freezes.
-- There isn't enough coolant in the system to circulate.
-- The thermostat is stuck in the closed position.

Any one is equally possible. It sounds like there is more than just the overheating that is wrong with it . . . . although severe overheating can cause a major flat spot between 4500-5000.

I actually had a customer drain his bike's antifreeze, refill just the coolant recovery tank then take it for a ride. It promptly overheated (duh!), yet he was not aware how that could happen!!! After it cooled down, the recovery tank emptied itself (into the radiator), so he filled the recovery tank again and luckily decided to call us for answers before riding it again. I asked him . . . "Didn't you notice that it only took a tiny amount to fill it? . . . . much much less than you drained out?" I don't remember what happened after that because my brain was choking on the thought of an $8,000+ M/C being ridden around with virtually no coolant in the engine block. After the proper fill procedure was explained then carried out by him, the engine appeared to not suffer any damage at all. No smoking exhaust or noisy hot idle.

.

[LostViking]

The coolant issue only bothers me because that is the second FGS bike that I've demoed here and they both sucked. The first was a press bike that was well hammered so I overlooked the damage. When a bike is rolled out off the showroom floor at the urging of the salesman exclaiming that I just have to try it. I expect it to run.

I will also say that there are two sides to the tech-customer debate. Not all techs show the level of caring and technical expertise that you display. I think the caring part is much more important. I have arrived at shops including BMW shops to find my bikes with cross threaded bolts, missing bolts, directional tires mounted backwards and other ridiculous displays of ineptitude. There are morons on both sides of that fence.

I have been riding and "wrenching" to some extent for more than forty years, so I have seen my share of dingbats on both sides of the coin. I had a KTM that had to be burped to achieve the proper coolant level. I have worked on, operated, and now sell heavy construction equipment. So I understand things break. It's how those failures are handled that I'm concerned about. I also struggle with the new breed of biker who has to call for a tow to have a turn signal bulb replaced, and doesn't know a filter wrench from a spark plug wrench. But I'm getting old and cranky.

[LostViking]

Just to let everyone know. I made my decision. I put $$$ down on the F800 GS yesterday. After much research and many test ride miles, coupled with my idea of how I want to ride this bike. The 800 came out on top. I don't think there is a bad choice to be had here. If I were sticking strictly to pavement it would have been the R1200R. If cross country adventure 2 up was the plan, it would have been the 12GS.

But what I see myself using this bike for is mostly inside 500 mile trips on secondary roads. Weekend exploring of the many fire roads and trails we have here in the Catskills and Adirondacks . Occasionally week long trips with camping gear. Again hoping to avoid the interstate as much as possible. Mostly solo.

I demoed both the 800 and the 1200 back to back to back yesterday. Both long demos with a variety of mixed terrains. At 70 I found the 12GS a precise tool in the twisties, Torquey, Stable, Responsive to rider input. Slightly less buffeting than the 800. If I had a trip to Montana planed. I might have gone that way.

What sealed the deal for me was a mixed bag of both real and subjective points where I felt the 800 had a slight advantage. "For what I intend to use it for". That last sentence is important.

First the weight. 50Lbs, is 50Lbs. The 800 feels lighter, because it is lighter.

Second and probably the most important one for me. The gearing/clutch combo. I found the lower geared/wet clutch combo to be easier to start on hills in the woods section of my rides. I wasn't really in the woods but on some steeper unimproved dirt roads trying to simulate the stop and go of woods riding. The 800 with it's already lower gearing and the ability to easily go lower was a big plus. Even leaving a stoplight I like the wet clutch/gearing better.

Third. The brakes were a wash. Both good, Both ABS. Tele/conventional-Yin/Yang

Fourth. Standing on the pegs went to the 800. Going up a steep hill the 800 was more comfortable as it was narrower in the rear of the tank than the 12 which tended to force my legs apart. I'm sure I could adjust to that part. Also standing in general went to the 800. I just felt more comfortable standing on this bike. It seems to really like to be ridden standing up. By me at least.

Fifth. Luggage and carrying ability. In stock form goes to the 12GS. Take that wacky grab rail thing off and you have a huge, flat space to attach all manner of bags, gear, firewood or anything else. It rocks. But I suffer from the same problem on bikes as I used to suffer from with backpacking. More room means more stuff.

Lastly. Weather protection goes to the 1200GS. You sit nicely tucked behind the cylinder heads and that scalloped tank. It also has a larger screen. Yesterday it was 91 degrees so that didn't seem so important. We'll see about that one later on. But again given my riding criteria it factored lower in my decision. It was hot. I was hot. I did not notice an excess of heat on the right side of the 800 as I've heard elsewhere. It was warm but so was the 1200.

While the 800 came out on top. If funds became available, I'd own a 1200GS in a heartbeat.

[Mollygrubber]

Thanks for that helpful review. I'm still debating my F8GS purchase, although posts like yours are pushing me to the dark side more every day. I'm thinking they must have the bugs worked out by now...

Peter

* white 2010 F8GS now sleeping in my garage *