Reliability

[thepeacebullgrunt]

It better be FOoocking reliable !
Because so far I invested around and included the bike itself almost $21000.

The bike is now one year and two month old with 27K on it....I am riding everyday with a daily average of 60 to 71 miles.

Only weird suspicious stuff happening so far are:
1) Clutch reservoir slightly leaking on the handlebar under summer heat.

2) Occasional weird muffled clacking noises at slow speed in parking perceived as noise and vibrations from the rear of the bike...like a kind of muffled hammer hitting. (Only at slow speed when trying to maneuver)

3) Oil Consumption is 12 Oz of Amsoil synthetic 20W50 every +/-2000 miles (Still not sure if it is "odd" or normal...I am Still trying to measure precisely the oil consumption).

4) Bike feel like it really could stall when shifting from neutral to 1st gear at a red light particularly when cold 5mns after start up.

5) Probably shocks or something else is squishy/noisy when I brake...this is odd and annoying specially for a quality bike.

6) Hot or cold...the engine is not running stable at very slow speed compare to my previous japanese bikes.

7) Mechanic found out that the spark plugs where very white...which he interpreted as an effect of the catalyzer forcing the bike to run very lean as he said.


So far these are the only weirdness I have found on this bike....

Still trying to understand and evaluate...
not to mention
also
CROSSING FINGERS !

[Lost Rider]

It better be FOoocking reliable !
Because so far I invested around and included the bike itself almost $21000.

The bike is now one year and two month old with 27K on it....

4) Bike feel like it really could stall when shifting from neutral to 1st gear at a red light particularly when cold 5mns after start up.

5) Probably shocks or something else is squishy/noisy when I brake...this is odd and annoying specially for a quality bike.

6) Hot or cold...the engine is not running stable at very slow speed compare to my previous japanese bikes.

OK, I have to say, do you actually think that spending $21,000 is buying you any guarantee that anything man made is 100% reliable?.... The most (has also failed) expensive machine ever made comes to mind - The Space Shuttle.
Plus it's not BMW's fault you've spent probably more than $6000 in additional crap for your motorbike, none of which makes it a more reliable machine.

Now, as for the "squishy" feeling.... you have 27,000 miles on your bike YOUR SHOCKS are worn out.
Yeah, I know, you think you bought a high quality bike and maybe your Japanese bikes shocks lasted longer, but the reality is BMW OEM shocks leave a lot to be desired and are not of the highest quality. @ 27K they are toast.
Buy new ones, preferably ones you can rebuild instead of replace like the crappy Showa's


Is this not stable running boxer a new thing or has it always been like that?
I would say not stable is an accurate description of how my bike's engine feels at certain rpm's, if you just got done riding a honda goldwing and especially when cold.
The sooner you quit trying to compare your boxer engine to a Japanese inline 4, the better off you are IMHO. Apples and oranges.
Now I could be wrong and you have a problem, but I've ridden quite a few different Hexhead engine bikes in the last few years and none of them felt just like the next. I think boxers are like people and while being similar they are also quite different with unique personalities.
I would think with your mileage you'd know your bike pretty well by now, and that's why I ask if it's a new thing, or just in your head.

If you even want to get together and ride my bike to try out the Ohlins or have something to compare yours to let me know.

[tinytrains]

I have noticed my 12 stutters and misses at idle a bit. Even with two spark plugs. Done it since new.

The EPA makes them run so lean they barely tick over. That's just modern engines.

I think that is why you can not just idle along in 1st gear.

Scott

[spenserj87]

Don, you're a smart guy, why are you still using a PC?..... it's so.... 1990's...

You artsy types...PC vs Mac. I think I can offer some perspective as my household has 2 Macs and 4 PCs of different flavors. Of course, I'm in the biz world and I have too many proprietary apps that take a hit on Parallels - and running a WinOS on a mac machine is kinda silly (although, my wife does it on her Macbook).

Of all the machines, I'm a big fan of Win7 - it works well, runs everything i throw at it, is easier to administer (as a power user). I even prefer the music video editing and recording software on the Win7 machine. Chrome kills on a Win7 PC.

Apple machines are sexy as hell, no doubt (although, they continue to fail on mouse designs). But, I've had more niggles issues with the Macs...nothing major - but for an advanced user, those Mac commercials don't really apply.

Finder sucks, application "closing" is not consistent, and I simply can't respect an OS that doesn't let you resize a window from any side.

Let the hijack begin

[Oaktown]

Thanks, Don. That's very useful information; too bad we didn't get "the rest of the story." The dealer wanted his loaner bike back since my bike is going to be there a week or so. While back at the dealer, I got the specifics and it is as you say. Without tearing into it, but based upon the visual evidence of seepage/leakage at the various locations, it is going to be any one or combination of four things: gearbox input shaft seal, gearbox output shaft seal; compensation (counter-balance) shaft seal or crank seal. The cost of all four seals is less than $60.00 IIRC, and the labor exceeds six hours, so while you're there, you're crazy not to do all four. In addition, the clutch plate could be contaminated, but not necessarily. Even if it turns out to be OK, I'm still thinking I'll change it. I have a steep (20+%) driveway and a couple times I've forgotten my gate key and had to channel ChiTown to ride around a column onto the dirt and grass for 30 feet until I could get back onto concrete. It didn't seem that I was slipping it too much, but when I parked in my garage I would smell the clutch. Me, my side cases with my Playmate and briefcase is pushing 300 lbs. Since I'm hoping to never pass this way again, an upgraded clutch now could mean I never have to deal with it until it's time to rebuild.

Using my newfound knowledge, I told the service manager that my build date was 9/07, a month before the revised part Don referenced. He hoped the compensation shaft seal was bad, as he felt this would give him leverage with BMW to cover or participate in the cost of repair. I'm hoping for the best, but the warranty has expired. If it is largely at the discretion of the dealer, I would hope they will cover it. Counting my 6, 12 & 18K services, I've had 2 sets of PR2s installed, plus my Wilbers. I'm not sure if I would be looking a potentially gift horse in the mouth for even thinking this, but what about the revised counter-balance shaft? Shouldn't that be changed as well? If indeed the counter-balance shaft seal is bad, isn't that proof that I have one of the "bad" counter-balance shafts? What would that cost? Time for a single malt.

[Lost Rider]

Doug, you obviously, really have no idea what you're talking about in your little bubble, even with all that fancy sounding stats, very specific app performance and having 6 computers in your house... hmm takes 6 eh?

Without throwing out what I actually do with computers, I just know I've never lost a long motorcycle forum post because my Mac crashed. Ever.

"Welcome to Macintosh" on CNBC on TV right now says it all.

There's those that are happy with a Suzuki, or impressed with the "performance" of a hyabusa, I prefer a BMW...

[spenserj87]

I prefer a BMW...

Common ground

[Lost Rider]

I prefer a BMW...

Common ground

still love ya'!

[hjsbmw]

I think I'll be purchasing the Contego Direct policy..

Looked into this, and 5 minutes before leaving to work seem to only add to the confusion. Can anyone who's done their research briefly state how this works?

Can one choose any repair facility/dealer?

Can the dealer reject coverage or do you simply prepay a repair and then submit for a reimbursement? Do they have predetermined average costs per repair or will they pay any bill minus the deductible, as long as the parts qualify?

The level II coverage states "seals on used vehicles are not covered". Anybody thinking about getting one of these seems to do so at the time the original warranty runs out, at which time the vehicle is used. Does that mean fear of leaking seals will not be eased by buying a policy?

Many questions, I know, but any discussion may give better grounds for deciding whether it may be a good idea to go this route. At any rate, this may be something to consider, having in mind the steep cost of repairs.

[deilenberger]

Damn I hate Windows7 (just finished composing a LONG reply when W7 crashed and burned.. back to W2K..)

Don, you're a smart guy, why are you still using a PC?..... it's so.... 1990's...

Actually- I shouldn't hate Windows - it's foibles and flaws have keep me gainfully employed for the past 15 years. I worship Bill Gates - if he'd made a decent OS I'd be on unemployment..

Mebbe when I retire next year I'll setup Ubunto or something on one of the home computers.. (there are about 7-8 of them last time I counted..)

Oh - the WIN7 machine has reverted back to XP, which I didn't even think was possible..

[LumpyCam]

There's those that are happy with a Suzuki, or impressed with the "performance" of a hyabusa, I prefer a BMW...

Maybe this will merge topics

Steve Jobs in a 1982 National Geographic article.

[deilenberger]

Is the R60 still in the lobby of Apple headquarters? Apparently Jobs had a small collection of things he thought were perfect designs, and this is one of the. Mebbe we should introduce him to the R12R..

[Lost Rider]

There's those that are happy with a Suzuki, or impressed with the "performance" of a hyabusa, I prefer a BMW...

Maybe this will merge topics

Steve Jobs in a 1982 National Geographic article.

Nice!

[gersh10]

You know I love this web site you guys are a wealth of information and it's always great to hear others points of view, well until you jump off topic and start in on the computer debate, at which point I do have to jump on the Mac band wagon...

Heard back from BMW today and they are holding to the 50% coverage with proof of maintenance records (got those). Now I'm waiting to hear from the dealership if they will help in any way. Keeping my fingers crossed, I'm always very nice to my dealerships...
Also good to know about the compensating shaft since my bike was produced in 9/06, I'll have to ask about that when they get back to me, I'll pay a little extra to keep from going through this again next year... Especially since I'm planning a couple long trips on the bike this year and don't want to run into problems out in the middle of no where... Also why I have AAA...

I've loved BMW's for years and this is my first one, I do plan on riding it for years to come. The only BMW I considered besides the R is the GS since I do have tendencies to wonder off the beaten path...

I'm also looking forward to doing my own maintenance but wasn't willing to touch anything till the warranty was up. I'll look into a local BMW club I like the idea of classed for maintaining the bike, good way to get to know others...

So are there any good manuals out there for our bikes? Has anyone bought the disk from BMW and what do you think of it?

Thanks for everything

[TAG-Caver]

I picked up the maint disk when I got the bike. Whenever I get a new toy, I get the manual to go with it. The disk is easy to follow and seems well documented for the work I've done so far. I'd rather have a paper manual since I like to sit down in the evenings and browse the service manual after I get a new bike, but with this you're stuck glued to the computer instead. Oh well, I guess that's progress.

Kevin

[hjsbmw]

I think I'll be purchasing the Contego Direct policy..

Looked into this, and 5 minutes before leaving to work seem to only add to the confusion. Can anyone who's done their research briefly state how this works?

Can one choose any repair facility/dealer?

Can the dealer reject coverage or do you simply prepay a repair and then submit for a reimbursement? Do they have predetermined average costs per repair or will they pay any bill minus the deductible, as long as the parts qualify?

The level II coverage states "seals on used vehicles are not covered". Anybody thinking about getting one of these seems to do so at the time the original warranty runs out, at which time the vehicle is used. Does that mean fear of leaking seals will not be eased by buying a policy?

Many questions, I know, but any discussion may give better grounds for deciding whether it may be a good idea to go this route. At any rate, this may be something to consider, having in mind the steep cost of repairs.

Contacted Contego. Answers:
-It's not like health insurance where you have to stay in network, you can choose any repair facility but they have to carry a license.

-The dealer has to directly work with Contego, get approval for the work, and is not obliged to do so. Would be good to clarify that your local dealership before buying a policy.

-Level I coverage can be bought only when the vehicle is still under warranty and it does cover seals. Once out of warranty one can buy level II coverage, which is not as extensive.

Something to think about. Maybe a good idea.

[deilenberger]

Gary,

Interesting post on another website about leaking seals:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/u ... Post585249

As far as doing the balance shaft - I wouldn't consider it unless it can be show to be the cause of the leak, and even then - replacing it is MAJOR work. BIG work. $$$$ work... so I'd tend to try a new seal and cross my fingers, unless you can get someone else to pay for it.

HTH, (and gotta look into Contego, have 1 month and 1,000 miles left..)

[thepeacebullgrunt]

It better be FOoocking reliable !
Because so far I invested around and included the bike itself almost $21000.

The bike is now one year and two month old with 27K on it....

4) Bike feel like it really could stall when shifting from neutral to 1st gear at a red light particularly when cold 5mns after start up.

5) Probably shocks or something else is squishy/noisy when I brake...this is odd and annoying specially for a quality bike.

6) Hot or cold...the engine is not running stable at very slow speed compare to my previous japanese bikes.

OK, I have to say, do you actually think that spending $21,000 is buying you any guarantee that anything man made is 100% reliable?.... The most (has also failed) expensive machine ever made comes to mind - The Space Shuttle.
Plus it's not BMW's fault you've spent probably more than $6000 in additional crap for your motorbike, none of which makes it a more reliable machine.

Now, as for the "squishy" feeling.... you have 27,000 miles on your bike YOUR SHOCKS are worn out.
Yeah, I know, you think you bought a high quality bike and maybe your Japanese bikes shocks lasted longer, but the reality is BMW OEM shocks leave a lot to be desired and are not of the highest quality. @ 27K they are toast.
Buy new ones, preferably ones you can rebuild instead of replace like the crappy Showa's


Is this not stable running boxer a new thing or has it always been like that?
I would say not stable is an accurate description of how my bike's engine feels at certain rpm's, if you just got done riding a honda goldwing and especially when cold.
The sooner you quit trying to compare your boxer engine to a Japanese inline 4, the better off you are IMHO. Apples and oranges.
Now I could be wrong and you have a problem, but I've ridden quite a few different Hexhead engine bikes in the last few years and none of them felt just like the next. I think boxers are like people and while being similar they are also quite different with unique personalities.
I would think with your mileage you'd know your bike pretty well by now, and that's why I ask if it's a new thing, or just in your head.

If you even want to get together and ride my bike to try out the Ohlins or have something to compare yours to let me know.

Hi ChiTown ! but I wasn't criticizing the bike...I like my bike even if sometimes I kind of perceive some tiny "oddities" it is still many many times nicer to handle than my previous old and clumsy/heavy Suzuki GSX 1100 G.

I am very busy with a few different things these days and it is the reason why I delayed my new shocks install... will probably go straight to a an order of Hyperpro set of shocks, the basic one at $1500 Hpa included. Today I was weighting my load and discovered that included me, all my bags and installed accessories I am not far from 250 Pounds.

But anyway ! all I have to say about the bike is that for now it is extremely reliable...it sound like it everyday and it behave that way too.
I do everything to keep it that way also just because I see this thing first as a tool, a spatio-temporal tool I'll say, an amazingly enjoyable one I must confess also.

All the gears and accessories I bought didn't improve the performance of the bike, I must write that I think it slightly affected it but it made my riding experience almost perfectly adapted to my lifestyle and this is what I needed.

Chitown, I am on west side almost everyday...if you want to meet up for a drink or meet somewhere around there lets do it... will PM you my phone number.

Cheers !
Frederic

[ka5ysy]

Damn I hate Windows7 (just finished composing a LONG reply when W7 crashed and burned.. back to W2K..)

Don, you're a smart guy, why are you still using a PC?..... it's so.... 1990's...

watch this, once you re-start windowz

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Funny, I was wondering the same thing . WIndows is the only OS that, if you do nothing, will crash itself over time. That registry is the dumbest thing ever conceived. I've been with Mac since the beginning and love them. The OS-X Snow Leopard (which is actually industrial strength Unix beneath the GUI) does not crash and the only time I restart it is when I update software Beemer people need to be Mac addicts. It fits our "unique" profile perfectly

[Oaktown]

Once again Don, thanks for the info and the link. It does appear to not be an uncommon event. My dealer tells me that the seals have been revised and once replaced, tend to last the life of the engine. He was unaware of the counter-balance/compensating shaft revision in 10/07 or what exactly precipitated it. Any idea just what trouble the old shaft design caused? Excessive oil consumption and/or vibration, seal failure, etc.? You're right about replacing the shaft; it's not gonna happen on my dime. Just hoping it is not a risk to my getting 150K+ miles prior to rebuilding in ten years or so.

John