Bike feels awkward at walking speeds.

[Dale_K]

Get below 5mph and it kind of wanders where other bikes sort of naturally go where you want without thinking about it. Maybe it's the steering damper and I'm considering a little experiment by disconnecting it for a day or two. Maybe boost up the front tire pressure before fooling with the damper. The last BMW I had (K75S) did this too but the R12R is worse. Combined with the sensitive brakes and I look like a novice every time I try to come to a smooth stop.

[sandycruz]

Hi Dale,

That's the exact opposite of my experience. And I'm not a big guy, so its not me muscling the bike around. I'd be looking for something causing this.

Good luck,

David

[tobes]

Something's up. My R is surgical precise at low speeds.

[lewellen]

That sort of thing got a lot better once I put on new tires.

I've also found it depends a lot on the road surface.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[lowflying]

Hi Dale,

I agree the brakes can be touchy. I can't tell from your post if you're already doing this, but maybe you'll find the bike a lot easier to manage if you use the back brake alone when going slow.

As an aside, I don't know if others do this, but whenever I come to a complete stop I transition to back brake only for the last couple of feet. Minimizes dive on all types of bikes and makes for a smooth stop. Anybody else do this?

Cheers,

Rob.

[lowflying]

Hi Dale,

I agree the brakes can be touchy. I can't tell from your post if you're already doing this, but maybe you'll find the bike a lot easier to manage if you use the back brake alone when going slow.

As an aside, I don't know if others do this, but whenever I come to a complete stop I transition to back brake only for the last couple of feet. Minimizes dive on all types of bikes and makes for a smooth stop. Anybody else do this?

Cheers,

Rob.

[lowflying]

Hi Dale,

I agree the brakes can be touchy. I can't tell from your post if you're already doing this, but maybe you'll find the bike a lot easier to manage if you use the back brake alone when going slow.

As an aside, I don't know if others do this, but whenever I come to a complete stop I transition to back brake only for the last couple of feet. Minimizes dive on all types of bikes and makes for a smooth stop. Anybody else do this?

Cheers,

Rob.

[lowflying]

Uh, sorry about the triple-post. Computer bogged down and I thought it wasn't responding...

[thepeacebullgrunt]

I use to ride an heavy GSX1100G with luggage's and fell a few time at low speed in parking at the begining.

But my R feel way more easy at 5 Mph than my GSX...

At this speed I can hear sometimes some metallic parts of the bike clacking with each other....like something is catching up and hitting an other element in the transmission...so ! for half a second I think I loose traction because of that.

[ka5ysy]

Get below 5mph and it kind of wanders where other bikes sort of naturally go where you want without thinking about it. Maybe it's the steering damper and I'm considering a little experiment by disconnecting it for a day or two. Maybe boost up the front tire pressure before fooling with the damper. The last BMW I had (K75S) did this too but the R12R is worse. Combined with the sensitive brakes and I look like a novice every time I try to come to a smooth stop.

Dale, I cant think of anything particular that might be causing this. Mine is rock stable a slow speeds. I actually enjoy easing along dead-slow at traffic lights to see how long I can go before putting a foot down. The stabilizer would not be a factor in this, because it is essentially a shock absorber that does not react to slow movements, only very quick motions emulating headshake. Remember that at slow speed you must have the bars square when applying the front brake or the bike will absolutely try to dump you on the ground in the direction the bars are turned. The effect does not require much turn of the bars to cause a very hard dump whatever way the bars are turned. This is true with any bike. At dead-slow speed, the use only the rear brake as necessary. This is how we brief the MSF classes doing slow speed maneuvers.

One thing that might be happening: Are you keeping your knees tucked into the tank at low speed? If not, that may be destabilizing the bike. We see that all the time on the range work at the classes.

How much mileage do you have on the front tire? My two sets of Conti Road Attacks tended to get scalloped toward the end of their service life, and would cause some wandering, beside the fact they tended to square off and tended to turn in when getting over the edges on turns. I have changed to Michelin Pilot Road 2's and love them. Only have about 2,000 miles on now but there is no evidence of squaring or scalloping at this point and they are very grippy in twisties.

Judy and I are thinking of making a run up your way soon for a weekend and maybe we can compare notes in person.

Doug

[bobw]

Hey! Dale. The Scrambler is a lot more nimble at walking speeds due to its size, gearing, wet clutch, etc..., but the R has such a low center of gravity that it's extra mass is in reality very easy to work in slow close quarters. At first I worried I might touch one of those heads hanging out there, but it was a thought that quickly vanished with a few rides. I use two fingers on the bakes and spent a great deal of time playing with them as they do have a very powerful first contact. Insipient skid/braking is easy to control in a "panic" situation though as they are very consistent regardless of ABS. Using a little back brake only and a little clutch slippage will give maximum control at slow speed figure 8's, etc., but the drive shaft talks to you more than a chain or belt drive, ignore it, everything is fine and the time duration of a couple warm up drills will not hurt anything. Get your feet on the pegs as soon as you start to move and maybe even stand up and wiggle her around to let your body get to know her and look where you want to go. A too soft tire can cause a problem at slow (any) speed but I can't imagine how much wear a tire would have to have to create a problem on basic slow speed driving, IMO it would be easily seen with the naked eye if it was present. I still think some long rides will melt away any nagging concerns on riding the R, just ride her like you stole it and she responds soooooo well. A true sleeper.


Best of luck and safe travels

Bob

[Dale_K]

Based on the responses this isn't a common characteristic. What I feel is exactly like an old fashioned screw type steering damper (think R60/5) that is too tight. Possibly the contrast from the previous bike, a Triumph Scrambler, exaggerates a minor issue. No steering damper on that bike and the skinny tires are sort of like power steering compared to the wide things on the R12R.

The best bike I ever had for low speed control was an FLHS Harley. You'd think a bike like that would be a pig (pun intended) but something about the steering geometry made the low speed control very precise. Harley uses oddball triple trees on its big bikes that are swept back behind the steering head.

[Kalle]

I have a couple of personal comments. First off, i feel the balance at low speeds is superb. I manage to stand absolutely still for several seconds without falling over and using the clutch to ease the bike into action is easy. The breaks are another issue all together. They do grip aggressively just before you stop, i have noticed that going slowly down hill a very steep gravel road for instance. The wheels lock and ABS just kicks inn no matter how easy i try to apply the breaks - especially the rear wheel. I wonder though, based on what other riders say about this, that this is indeed an issue about the ABS itself? Maybe someone without ABS can confirm / deny this?

Also the "boxer surge" (lateral movement when reving) can take some time getting used to when you crawl forward. You do get used to it though. Another point which isnt too great, is the turn angle of the steering wheel. Especially at very low speeds: "crawling", you want tighter turns. A good thing about the lack of too tight turns is that the balance stays good no matter how tight you turn the RR. On several racers i have tested, the lateral weight distribution means you have to counter balance a lot with your body as you turn sharply, or else the bike simply falls over. The lack of top-heavieness and lack of super-tight turning means you stay upright without hanging out on the other side like a sailor.

All in all though, it is the easiest bike to ride slowly i have ever tried. Weaving in between cars in a tight packed queue can be done with just a slight application of knee pressure. This is the boxer balance - the only bikes with built in "balancing rods" Also, it doesn't dive at all breaking at slow speeds.

Eh, it's simply sweet

[famousperson]

I haven't found mine to be unstable at all at low speeds, have no suggestions. Let us know what you finally determine the problem is.

[ShinySideUp]

While I have no complaints at all with my R, I did have a similar problem on another bike. Turned out to be improperly torqued steering head. I'd have your dealer ride the bike and test that torque value, if they feel anything is amiss.

[deilenberger]

While I have no complaints at all with my R, I did have a similar problem on another bike. Turned out to be improperly torqued steering head. I'd have your dealer ride the bike and test that torque value, if they feel anything is amiss.

I could be mistaken - but from: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=31&fg=15 - I believe that's a simple ball-bearing, and not a stem assembly like "normal" front suspensions use with two bearings (tapered or ball). Torquing this won't make any difference since you're only tightening up against the solid bushing in the center of the bearing. The bottom pivot to the telelever arm is a ball-joint, again, not adjustable for drag.

The most likely culprit is the steering damper - and I believe there was a recall on some of them - and the dealer should be able to track it down. Low speed instability is usually something like a binding front end. Be easy enough to check, the steering damper comes off with one bolt and one clip (did this when helping Hyperpro-US design an adjustable replacement..) Certainly with the damper removed and the front end lifted off the ground - the steering should move stop to stop with just a touch. If it doesn't - there is some other problem, but my guess would be on a defective damper (especially since there WAS a recall on them..)

[Dale_K]

Thanks for that info. I'll temporarily disconnect it and take it on a low speed test ride (if the rain ever stops here in Arkansas). I rode the bike in a 30 mile loop around the community last night and tried to concentrate on this issue. The bike felt reasonably good from the standpoint of pure low speed steering response as long as I wasn't actually coming to a stop. I might be lumping together two different things, the steering and the sensitive brakes and attributing the "awkwardness" to the steering when the real issue is my inability to modulate the brakes smoothly during the last 4 feet as I come to a stop sign. I kind of wobble at that moment.

But I'm still going to test the steering damper. If that makes a difference I'll talk with the dealer about getting a new one.

[Bill Stevenson]

One additional thought occurs to me. When either starting from rest or coming to a stop from speed, do it smoothly but aggressively. At low speed the gyro effect is gone and the bike handles totally differently. By starting from a stop quickly, and by applying the brakes with force gets you through those transition moments of instability quickly. It is better to err on the side of riding somewhat aggressively for stops and starts than it is to be tentative. Try practicing the smooth rapid stop and see if that doesn't help.

This comment in no way is meant to refute the other good points made in this thread.

Bill