Hello and thanks for taking time to help me with my questions. In a nut shell......I have been drooling over the new R12R for several months now!! I sold my Buell and will purchasing a new bike this winter/spring. With that, the research of finding out which bike is the right one for me has just started. Hopefully you can help with my decision (still need to demo both bikes)!
Aside from the R12R, I am considering buying another Buell........the XB12Ss (please no Buell bashing). Both the XB and 12R are pretty similar in regards to power specs......the major differences between the two bikes are the 12R is a 6 speed and has a shaft drive - where the Buell is a 5 speed and has belt drive. Oh, and the 12R is about $2600 more than the Buell.
The things I like about Buell is the bikes have character......they sound great - feel great - and not too many people ride/know about them. They have a very enthusiastic group of riders/followers (much like BMW riders). To me, this adds character. I get on the bike, and I feel like I am part of it. To me this adds to the riding experience. Next, is they are relatively easy to maintain......say what you will about their 45 degree V-Twin......it is still a great motor that makes power and is easy to work on. I like that the final (belt) drive is maintenance free. Basically, oil every season.....maybe adjust the primary, and away you go! Even though HD service has a reputation of being less than stellar in regards to Bueller's.......there still is an extensive network for accessing parts and service. There is also a great web forum that I have used for tech advice and misc. questions, www.badweatherbikers.com. American Sport Bike is another great resource for after market and OEM parts.
As for as BMW goes........I think it will be an easier bike to ride for long distance trips - I like the idea that I can install highway pegs on the 12R's heads!! This is important because one of the reasons I am considering a bike other than Buell is the fact that the Buell I used to own was extremely uncomfortable on long rides over an hour (old bike was a Buell XB9SL). I have always wanted a sport bike I could "stretch out on" during longer rides. The new 12R seems to be the ticket! Things that concern me about BMW is:
The shaft drive.........how reliable is it and how much maintenance does it require
The shrinking amount of dealers......this is an issue if and when I would require parts and service - should I worry
The highway pegs.......do they work and how (un)comfortable are they
After market mods..........what is available for aftermarket cosmetic/performance mods - are there a good deal of suppliers
What are they most recommended performance/cosmetic mods
Out of the additional feature that are offered for the 12R -ABS, ASC, ESA........which ones are a must have
Maintenance - is this a DIYer's bike or is a good service center a must
That is all I can think of for now...............again, thanks for all of your help!!
Newbie with R12R questions
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kay bill c
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Re: Newbie with R12R questions
I'll try to give you some imput but you really need a test ride for sure.I have and still do ride Harley's my freind has an XB which I have taken for some short ride's.Here's my opinion I'll take my R1200R for smoothness every time.The buells are way torque'e for sure but that R 1200r will make you really appreciate that smothness.If your dead set in-love with that V-twin sound well your not going to get it no matter what pipes you spend your money on for the BMW.Out over the road on longer ride's you should love the R12 over the buell.It is more up right in it's seating, add a sheild and some luggage and your off for sure{I'll still take my roadking if I'm going over 200mile's}but I'am old with a developing beer gut.It ain't no harley to work on for sure but if your able, service work can be down at home.This bike is pure fun to ride you won't feel as worn when you park it after a 100mile's as the buell for sure. Again you need to demo this bike you need to put some miles on it most dealer's have no problem letting you go for 20-30 miles if you tell them first.Depends how your buell friends welcome other make's if you want to continue to ride with the bunch.It shouldn't matter but you never know.These bike's are very dependable for sure,like anything you can get a bad one once in a while with proper maintance miles is not a problem with these boxer engines.Hope I helped and enjoy your shopping.
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Lost Rider
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Welcome to the forum!
This should turn out to be a very interesting thread...
**I say all this in Dr Nick's voice**
Hi everybody!
This statement could basically be said by any one of us 1200R owners about our Roadster's...
Rare bike...... check
character....... check
sounds great..... check ( a different pipe might be needed for you considering... LOTS of aftermarket choices)
Nutty "enthusiastic" group of riders.... check
On the R, you don't feel like you're one with the bike, you ARE one with the bike. After the dealer jacks you in, and syncs you both up upon delivery you just have to think things and the bike does it....
Replace the V with a bulletproof cutting edge Boxer... now your talking smooth power
While BMW doesn't have the extensive dealer network like HD, we have what I believe to be a much more reliable machine and therefore don't need to worry about being a few hundred miles away from one, and when you join BMWMOA you get the Anonymous Book, with thousands of other members in every city willing to help enough to have there phone # published so you're never really far from help riding a BMW. The excellent treatment at most dealers makes up for the smaller network IMO.
We have this great forum, along with MANY other BMW one's with a wealth of knowledge.
Here's a few I like most, besides r1150r.org of course!
http://www.advrider.com
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum
There have been no reports of any 1200R final drive failures that I have seen around here or the other forums I have frequented for years, not that it hasn't happened, but it is NOT a common thing. Contrary to popular internet conspiracy theory's would have you believe.
When the 1200GS first came out there were reported failures, to add to a history of failed BMW FD's. I think others can comment better than I, but don't believe the hype, the 1200R's FD's are rock solid. I feel that if anyone around here would have broken a FD it would be me, riding over 28,000 miles the first 10 months alone - pushing the bike beyond it's normal limits. Just look at my site.
covered that above, don't sweat it...
I don't have them, and I say this with the utmost respect - you are still thinking in HD/Buell think so stop it.
apples and oranges.
There is much more to long distance comfort than stretching your legs, (though it doesn't hurt to swing you legs up on the jugs for a minute now and then on long rides) the overall ergonomics, vibration (or lack of), ease of riding, and suspension, make the whole package a competent tourer, among many things. When I'm saying long distance and touring, I mean 500+ mile days for weeks on end non-stop, not 200 mile quick trips to the corner store....
Now, most of us have done some sort of "customizing" or commonly called farkling. (I don't really like the word farkle, but "customizing" makes me think of the Orange County Chopper show...
)
Anyways for lack of a better word....
some of us get custom seats, bar risers, peg lowering kits, seat pads, aftermarket shocks, backrests, and some have highway pegs too. The biggest and most controversial accessory is The WindScreen... please don't ask... please... just look around...
There is a good deal of suppliers in BMW land. You will find though that the accessories for BMW have more to do with comfort, safety, protection, and having more electronics mounted to your bike than stuff that just looks better or is shiny.
here's a few, I'm sure more will be posted
http://www.ascycles.com/
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/
Honestly, there's not many performance "mods" to be had. BMW does it right the first time, why screw with perfection?
Some people might want to play with the mapping, but why?
Exhaust doesn't really give you more useable power, just a better sound and substantial weight savings.
ABS. period. once you have it and feel it save your A$$ a few times you'll never want to ride without it again.
it is not intrusive, you can hardly feel it kick in...
You know this bike has linked brakes right? see other current threads for more info...
some people will tell you how they like the other options, but buying a rebuildable after market shock instead of ESA is money better spent IMO. Then again I don't have ESA, but I do have Ohlins' and they feel absolutely amazing, a substantial improvement over the OEM showa shocks. ( which is still what the ESA uses) Some people prefer convienince over performance which I understand.
Performance for me for some time to come.
Again do a search and you'll find all you need....
As for ASC, I have that in the analog version - my wrist...
That all depends on your self confidence as a mechanic, or your skill at reading a service manual and using a torque wrench...
Personally I think the bike is very easy to work on, I do all the maintenance and repairs myself.
Easy... Changing the FD oil at a rest stop...
here's a few threads of mine taking my bike apart. whatever you do, don't go on my information for working on your bike...
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14506
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12920
Since you're talking about changing up or "modding" your new BMW, and I am really missing my bike... here's my R all naked and clean :
Touring Mode:
Too much fun mode:
Did I mention you can ride a R where ever you want in comfort?
Good luck with your decision, just go take one for a ride,(BMW dealer's do test ride bikes..) but don't forget your checkbook....
Cheers
Joe
**I say all this in Dr Nick's voice**
Hi everybody!
g4string wrote:
The things I like about Buell is the bikes have character......they sound great - feel great - and not too many people ride/know about them.
They have a very enthusiastic group of riders/followers (much like BMW riders). To me, this adds character.
I get on the bike, and I feel like I am part of it. To me this adds to the riding experience.
Next, is they are relatively easy to maintain......say what you will about their 45 degree V-Twin......it is still a great motor that makes power and is easy to work on.
I like that the final (belt) drive is maintenance free. Basically, oil every season.....maybe adjust the primary, and away you go!
Even though HD service has a reputation of being less than stellar in regards to Bueller's.......there still is an extensive network for accessing parts and service. There is also a great web forum that I have used for tech advice and misc. questions, http://www.badweatherbikers.com. American Sport Bike is another great resource for after market and OEM parts.
This statement could basically be said by any one of us 1200R owners about our Roadster's...
Rare bike...... check
character....... check
sounds great..... check ( a different pipe might be needed for you considering... LOTS of aftermarket choices)
Nutty "enthusiastic" group of riders.... check
On the R, you don't feel like you're one with the bike, you ARE one with the bike. After the dealer jacks you in, and syncs you both up upon delivery you just have to think things and the bike does it....
Replace the V with a bulletproof cutting edge Boxer... now your talking smooth power
While BMW doesn't have the extensive dealer network like HD, we have what I believe to be a much more reliable machine and therefore don't need to worry about being a few hundred miles away from one, and when you join BMWMOA you get the Anonymous Book, with thousands of other members in every city willing to help enough to have there phone # published so you're never really far from help riding a BMW. The excellent treatment at most dealers makes up for the smaller network IMO.
We have this great forum, along with MANY other BMW one's with a wealth of knowledge.
Here's a few I like most, besides r1150r.org of course!
http://www.advrider.com
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum
g4string wrote: As for as BMW goes........I think it will be an easier bike to ride for long distance trips - I like the idea that I can install highway pegs on the 12R's heads!! This is important because one of the reasons I am considering a bike other than Buell is the fact that the Buell I used to own was extremely uncomfortable on long rides over an hour (old bike was a Buell XB9SL). I have always wanted a sport bike I could "stretch out on" during longer rides. The new 12R seems to be the ticket!
Things that concern me about BMW is:
1 The shaft drive.........how reliable is it and how much maintenance does it require
There have been no reports of any 1200R final drive failures that I have seen around here or the other forums I have frequented for years, not that it hasn't happened, but it is NOT a common thing. Contrary to popular internet conspiracy theory's would have you believe.
When the 1200GS first came out there were reported failures, to add to a history of failed BMW FD's. I think others can comment better than I, but don't believe the hype, the 1200R's FD's are rock solid. I feel that if anyone around here would have broken a FD it would be me, riding over 28,000 miles the first 10 months alone - pushing the bike beyond it's normal limits. Just look at my site.
g4string wrote: 2 The shrinking amount of dealers......this is an issue if and when I would require parts and service - should I worry
covered that above, don't sweat it...
g4string wrote: 3 The highway pegs.......do they work and how (un)comfortable are they
I don't have them, and I say this with the utmost respect - you are still thinking in HD/Buell think so stop it.
apples and oranges.
There is much more to long distance comfort than stretching your legs, (though it doesn't hurt to swing you legs up on the jugs for a minute now and then on long rides) the overall ergonomics, vibration (or lack of), ease of riding, and suspension, make the whole package a competent tourer, among many things. When I'm saying long distance and touring, I mean 500+ mile days for weeks on end non-stop, not 200 mile quick trips to the corner store....
Now, most of us have done some sort of "customizing" or commonly called farkling. (I don't really like the word farkle, but "customizing" makes me think of the Orange County Chopper show...
)Anyways for lack of a better word....
some of us get custom seats, bar risers, peg lowering kits, seat pads, aftermarket shocks, backrests, and some have highway pegs too. The biggest and most controversial accessory is The WindScreen... please don't ask... please... just look around...g4string wrote: 4 After market mods..........what is available for aftermarket cosmetic/performance mods - are there a good deal of suppliers
There is a good deal of suppliers in BMW land. You will find though that the accessories for BMW have more to do with comfort, safety, protection, and having more electronics mounted to your bike than stuff that just looks better or is shiny.
here's a few, I'm sure more will be posted
http://www.ascycles.com/
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/
g4string wrote: 5 What are they most recommended performance/cosmetic mods
Honestly, there's not many performance "mods" to be had. BMW does it right the first time, why screw with perfection?
Some people might want to play with the mapping, but why?
Exhaust doesn't really give you more useable power, just a better sound and substantial weight savings.
g4string wrote: 6 Out of the additional feature that are offered for the 12R -ABS, ASC, ESA........which ones are a must have
ABS. period. once you have it and feel it save your A$$ a few times you'll never want to ride without it again.
it is not intrusive, you can hardly feel it kick in...
You know this bike has linked brakes right? see other current threads for more info...
some people will tell you how they like the other options, but buying a rebuildable after market shock instead of ESA is money better spent IMO. Then again I don't have ESA, but I do have Ohlins' and they feel absolutely amazing, a substantial improvement over the OEM showa shocks. ( which is still what the ESA uses) Some people prefer convienince over performance which I understand.
Performance for me for some time to come.
Again do a search and you'll find all you need....
As for ASC, I have that in the analog version - my wrist...
g4string wrote: 7 Maintenance - is this a DIYer's bike or is a good service center a must
That all depends on your self confidence as a mechanic, or your skill at reading a service manual and using a torque wrench...
Personally I think the bike is very easy to work on, I do all the maintenance and repairs myself.
Easy... Changing the FD oil at a rest stop...
here's a few threads of mine taking my bike apart. whatever you do, don't go on my information for working on your bike...
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14506
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12920
Since you're talking about changing up or "modding" your new BMW, and I am really missing my bike... here's my R all naked and clean
:Touring Mode:
Too much fun mode:
Did I mention you can ride a R where ever you want in comfort?
Good luck with your decision, just go take one for a ride,(BMW dealer's do test ride bikes..) but don't forget your checkbook....
Cheers
Joe
Get Lost!
Re: Newbie with R12R questions
Thanks for taking the time for your replies..........VERY HELPFUL!!!!!!
Re: Newbie with R12R questions
I think the Ulysses is much more comparable to the R1200R than the Lightning. In fact, it was on my short list before I bought the RR, and if the "T" version was available then, it would have been a tougher decision. My aging back won't take the leaned-forward riding position of the Lightning (or really any sport bike) for very long.
My previous experience with the two brands: My son owns a BMW F650GS. He rode it from Massachusetts to Alaska and back (12000 miles in all) with no problems except chain replacement (twice). And I owned a Harley Sportster during the AMF days (big mistake!).
My decision to go with the RR hinged on two factors: Drive and dealership.
I am an ardent disciple of shaft drive. My other bike is a Honda shaftie and has over 30000 miles of use with no final drive issues. My previous experience with chains has been disappointing, probably because I'm lazy and don't lube and adjust them as I should. Belts are better, but they still need to be replaced. I'll gladly give up a couple of horsepower to the bevel gears to not have to worry about maintenance.
Around here, the Harley dealers look at Buells as the bastard children of The Motor Company. As soon as Harley removed the requirement that all dealers carry Buells, most of them dropped them as if they were on fire. We have no Buell-only dealerships. I don't know how universal that is across the country, but it raised enough doubt in my mind that I didn't want to take the risk of breaking down in the middle of nowhere with no motivated dealer within range.
HTH.
My previous experience with the two brands: My son owns a BMW F650GS. He rode it from Massachusetts to Alaska and back (12000 miles in all) with no problems except chain replacement (twice). And I owned a Harley Sportster during the AMF days (big mistake!).
My decision to go with the RR hinged on two factors: Drive and dealership.
I am an ardent disciple of shaft drive. My other bike is a Honda shaftie and has over 30000 miles of use with no final drive issues. My previous experience with chains has been disappointing, probably because I'm lazy and don't lube and adjust them as I should. Belts are better, but they still need to be replaced. I'll gladly give up a couple of horsepower to the bevel gears to not have to worry about maintenance.
Around here, the Harley dealers look at Buells as the bastard children of The Motor Company. As soon as Harley removed the requirement that all dealers carry Buells, most of them dropped them as if they were on fire. We have no Buell-only dealerships. I don't know how universal that is across the country, but it raised enough doubt in my mind that I didn't want to take the risk of breaking down in the middle of nowhere with no motivated dealer within range.
HTH.