Clutch spline failures - Let's get serious

[Bill Stevenson]

My 1985 R80 got the splines lubed but it is too long ago for me to remember the mileage, but the bike went over 100k before I saw it for the last time. My K100RS got splines lubed at 24k and at 48k before I traded it. My K1100RS got the splines lubed at 24k, sold the bike at 50k, the new owner lubed the splines right away and knowing him regularly thereafter. Last check that bike had over 175k on it, no spline problems. My son's 1995 R1100GS had the splines lubed at 24K intervals, bike now has 138k, no problems. My 1999 R1100RS had splines lubed at 24k, no idea of current status. My 2002 R1150R ABS had splines lubed at 24k, no problems, bike has over 40k on it now with no problems. I could bring a whole bunch of friends into this but I'd have to do a lot of phoning. Suffice it to say that all of my beemer buddies lube their splines and not one of them has had a spline failure. Just in case there is any confusion, I am a guy who has been messing around with BMW motorcycles since 1970 and have a whole lot of experience with them.

Before 1991 models, the splines were not hard chrome plated. Starting with 1991 models the splines were plated and the lube requirement went to 40,000 miles. Most owners balked because to do it right is costly or time consuming. The whole back of the bike has to be removed, transmission removed etc. It is 8 hours plus for someone who knows what they are about. Some people have tried to short cut the job by just sliding the transmission back and applying a bit of lube to the exposed part of the shaft. That is not sufficient. The splines have to be cleaned and re-lubed. BMW has changed the recommended lube a couple of times. In my opinion the type of lube is not critical, it can be grease or anti-sieze compound. In my experience, waiting until 40k to do it is too long. Splines are bone dry at that point and often show signs of wear. At least two guys I know replaced the shaft at this point rather than take the chance even though the splines had not yet failed. Most of the problems that I know about were with GS models probably because of the greater suspension travel. The smart owner lubes the splines at 24k intervals irrespective of what the manufacturer recommends and a good dealer will tell you that. AFAIK, no spline failures have occurred for owners who lube their splines at 24k. God helps those who help themselves. Lube your splines and ride in peace.

Bill

[riceburner]

My 1985 R80 got the splines lubed but it is too long ago for me to remember the mileage, but the bike went over 100k before I saw it for the last time. My K100RS got splines lubed at 24k and at 48k before I traded it. My K1100RS got the splines lubed at 24k, sold the bike at 50k, the new owner lubed the splines right away and knowing him regularly thereafter. Last check that bike had over 175k on it, no spline problems. My son's 1995 R1100GS had the splines lubed at 24K intervals, bike now has 138k, no problems. My 1999 R1100RS had splines lubed at 24k, no idea of current status. My 2002 R1150R ABS had splines lubed at 24k, no problems, bike has over 40k on it now with no problems. I could bring a whole bunch of friends into this but I'd have to do a lot of phoning. Suffice it to say that all of my beemer buddies lube their splines and not one of them has had a spline failure. Just in case there is any confusion, I am a guy who has been messing around with BMW motorcycles since 1970 and have a whole lot of experience with them.

Before 1991 models, the splines were not hard chrome plated. Starting with 1991 models the splines were plated and the lube requirement went to 40,000 miles. Most owners balked because to do it right is costly or time consuming. The whole back of the bike has to be removed, transmission removed etc. It is 8 hours plus for someone who knows what they are about. Some people have tried to short cut the job by just sliding the transmission back and applying a bit of lube to the exposed part of the shaft. That is not sufficient. The splines have to be cleaned and re-lubed. BMW has changed the recommended lube a couple of times. In my opinion the type of lube is not critical, it can be grease or anti-sieze compound. In my experience, waiting until 40k to do it is too long. Splines are bone dry at that point and often show signs of wear. At least two guys I know replaced the shaft at this point rather than take the chance even though the splines had not yet failed. Most of the problems that I know about were with GS models probably because of the greater suspension travel. The smart owner lubes the splines at 24k intervals irrespective of what the manufacturer recommends and a good dealer will tell you that. AFAIK, no spline failures have occurred for owners who lube their splines at 24k. God helps those who help themselves. Lube your splines and ride in peace.

Bill

As someone who's obviously done the job, would you be able to help us help ourselves, possibly by posting up a reasonably detailed description of how to go about it?

I bought my Rockster as a 5-10 years or more, do everything, bike and would like to make sure I achieve that goal.

[frbank6]

I have no doubt you are intimately familiar with the bikes and how best to take care of them. But based on the facts you've just shared, I have even more questions about what BMW is up to on this issue. So the older bikes had chromed shafts and a maintenance schedule; now the new ones have neither. The choming was elliminated as a cost or environmental measure, but why eliminate the lube procedure? It makes no sense to guarantee a higher(not everyone)incidence of failure. Even 1 or 2% repaired under warranty would eat up the savings from the lack of chrome. And the damage to reputation is incalculable. I should not have to rely on the tender mercies of my friendly shop guy to tell me it's not on the maintenance schedule, and it's really expensive but I should get it done?

If it's just lubing, it's isn't any worse than having to bleed brakes or check Bowden cables or any other mundane wear and tear item. But if it's metallugy or design, that's something else.

If I scrupulously follow the recommended service intervals and have a spline failure at any mileage, then hear about some secret lube ritual passed on by word of mouth, that's when attorneys are needed. It seems like if I fail to follow the guidelines to the letter and have something fail, it's my dime for the repairs. And, if I DO follow the guidelines to the letter and have a failure, well, that's my dime, too.

[boxermania]

Bill thank you stepping in and sharing your vast experience and that of your friends as it would be most helpfull to the readers as well as those affected by the failure.

To precede my commentary and establish a baseline; BMW opposed twins have had a rich history of clutch issues well before the advent of the R259 models (oilheads).

Just like you I've had extensive exposure to foreign automoviles, BMW's anmongst them along with their bikes, as it has been my lifetime hobby. Likewise, I must confess that I have never seen, witnessed or heard opf an incipient clutch fdisc ailuire like the one experienced within the oilhead ownership.

Lubrication, design, amongst other parameters could very well be the source, however, amongst a design team goals there is one that deals specifically with design life and normaly it's target is not between 10K miles to 40K miles or the expense of maintenace, ie, lubrication, or lack thereoff. Certainly not for a brand that praises on being a premier supplier of reliable motorcycles.

That being said I have to wholeheartedly agree, no offense intended, with fbank6 position based on the following:

1) It is common practice for OEM's to explore less costly parts, if they fulfill the original design life. After all they are in business to make a profit and a $1 cheaper part might not mean much to us, but on a 200,000 run I'm sure you can see the difference.
2) If the result of number 1 above entails a diferent maintenance schedule, it stands to reason that this should be made plain and clear to the owner. Unfortunately in this case, some of us might actually enjoy going through the motions as we have the tools, knowledge and the disposition, however, I think that our group does not represent the majority of the owners.
3) The intended or "forgotten" mention of 2 above in the owners manual might reflect the significant cost and inconvenience to the average user of one of the "most reputable and reliable brands in motorcycling"

I never had an issue with my R1150R, during the period of ownership and God knows I tinkered with that bike, but have been following and documenting this "problem" for sometime now I can reasonably deduce:

A) BMW missed their engineering design by a significant margin at the expense of the product reliability
B) BMW elected to play "the possum game" that is, ignore and deny, hoping that the failures would come "one day past the end of the warranty" as a portion of them so ocurred.
C) BMW has comitted, IMO, the cardinal sign of not assuming product stewardship.
D) Had the potential owners been made aware of the potential problem, BMW dealers would have had a fairly high demand for extended warranty coverage.

As a matter of fact if I was a BMW dealer and aware of the issues, this would have been my line.....

You are about to make a sizeable investment on the most reliable motorcycle brand. We are proud of our products, as you well know a reliable product menas added enginering cost and better made parts, this of course adds a premium to the servicing of the bike, since we want to provide you with a thorough, better yet, unmatched service eperience.

To that end and to minimize any future out of pocket cost/inconvenience and add to your ownership experience I think you should consider an extended warranty for.......with this product you would have nothing to worry about and we would cater to any of your bikes needs.

If I knew what I know now I would have jumped on that offer like a band of fleas on a camel, better yet, I think I'm going to apply for a BMW dealership......

[awagnon]

Another R1500R spline failure on the BMWMOA site forum: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28299

[jfslater98]

Another R1500R spline failure on the BMWMOA site forum: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28299

Unfortunately, this is the "Internet Amplification" effect at work. This our very own Johnnyjs1, who has already documented the problem here

http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15134

Rats! Where is my MCN? I still haven't gotten it yet, I would love to see what they say about it.

[awagnon]

Thanks, jfslater98, I hadn't connected the two. In the MOA thread is a report of a guy who filed a claim in small claims court. Naturally, BMW didn't show up, so perhaps he will win.

I haven't received my MCN yet, either. Must be the curse of being at the end of the alphabet.

[ASQTec]

I'm hoping everyone with this problem is filing with the small claims court in their state. I know I would. It may not get you compensation, but it is legitimate, legal documentation. This forum is not.

Maybe the pot would get stirred if the word got out that BMW Motorad failed to appear at hundreds of cases nationally. I could be wrong; they might show up.

Participation like this would increase the chances of attracting attention beyond us just talking about it. A $2 donation from every member of this forum would help pay for the filing fees of all the unfortunate casualties.

[parkec]

Does this mean my buddy can now buy an 05 1150 w/ low miles and ABS for $3,000?

[MikeCam]

One problem faced by owners with regard to the spline issue is that so far there are fewer than 40 cases out of some 40,000 units imported to the U.S.

[awagnon]

One problem faced by owners with regard to the spline issue is that so far there are fewer than 40 cases out of some 40,000 units imported to the U.S.

Mike. Where do you get the number 40? I suspect it's much higher than 40, but have no data. You can't go by what is posted on the various internet forums because it's just a small sampling of BMW owners. It could be a much higher number. We'll never know unless BMW tells us. I don't think we can get the information from forums. From what I've read, written by engineers and mechanics with more experience than I have, even a few failures out of 40,000 is excessive for splines which just shouldn't happen on a properly designed clutch.

[ncator]

Boxermania,
In response to your question to tabulate those if us who have had this spline failure occur here you are:
Yr- 2002
Model- r1150r
Vin#- WB10439BX2ZF45244
Mileage- 22k
Repaired in July/08 at- BMW of Salt Lake City. (never will my bike go there again)
email- [email protected]

Thanks.

[boxermania]

I don't know where Mike obtained his number and therefore can't dispute it inteligently, however I have managed to find that BMW sold 12,685 bikes in the US on 2006.

If my mind doesn't fail me, I remember reading in MCN that the R's were selling at a 3,000 to 4,000 units per year. If so that would be 12,000 units with the high number for years 02, 03 and 04. 1% of that number would be about 120 failures and I think if not there we are certainly very close.......

Let me tally those that I have so far.......

[Bill Stevenson]

Providing a detailed set of instructions to perform the spline lube would be quite lengthy and I have neither the time nor the background to do it justice. I am not a mechanic, much less a BMW Certified mechanic. I did take a class years ago sponsored by the dealer in the Hartford, CT area (Canton Cycles), where the entire procedure was taught and demonstrated. Somewhere I still have the book, which is quite lengthy. Basically you start at the back of the bike and remove the wheel and then the drive train. It would be the same as the shop manual procedure for replacing the clutch.

AFAIK, the splines are still hard chrome plated for all models to this day, but this plating is not shiny which may account for any confusion. The basic design of the drive system has not changed much over the years and there is no reason to treat oil heads differently than other models. As I said, it is my impression that more failures occurred on GS models than others. This could be due to more suspension travel, or more dirt, or more aggressive riding...who knows? No matter, the fix is the same - lube the splines. For those of you who live in the snow belt this is a great weekend project. This is one time when servicing your bike over and above the manufacturer's recommendations would be warranted. Any dealer who has been in business for a while would know all about spline lubes and should be willing to verify what I have written in this thread. Finis.

Take care,

Bill

[SecondWind]

C'mon Guys;

Enough with the smart comments and the life history of every BMW that you owned since the 80's. LET'S HAVE DATA!

Boxermania is trying to do the right thing and gather DATA on ACTUAL Spine Failures. This is a great first step!! With some actual numbers (which will be a very small snapshot) of this Forum's users who see this post and choose to respond, it will give us all an better idea that this has legs.

I can assure you that Boxermania is NOT consumed with this, that this is not internet hysteria, and that if BMW dicks one of us on these repairs they will do the same to all of us. If JohnnyS has 3 spline Failures sitting at his repairing BMW dealer it IS A PROBLEM and the next person riding in a rollback and facing big repair bills may be YOU.

Also, some of you are just BMW mullets or just have very low expectations of the comany. I EXPECT BMW to EXTEND the WARRANTY and/or PAY for these repairs OUT OF WARRANTY due to this spline production/design defect that is affecting some of us. My 1990 Toyota 4-Runner received a FREE AC Repair at 152,000 miles ( I bought it used) because of a failure of an AC seal, and a friend had a complete engine replacement in his Toyota Avalon at 176,000 Miles, SO GOOD Companies ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT CUSTOMERS.

I will purchase another Toyota, however, based on the outcome of this I may be riding my last BMW.

[OU812]

2ndwind, you are a dreamer if you think BMW will pay for out of warranty repairs. It's just not their way. I wish they would but have never heard of them doing so.

[harrisphil]

I responce to OU812
a long time ago when I had an R100 twin shock BMW replaced all the cast front wheels irespective of age or mileage
this I believe was following the failure of couple of bikes in Germany

[riceburner]

I responce to OU812
a long time ago when I had an R100 twin shock BMW replaced all the cast front wheels irespective of age or mileage
this I believe was following the failure of couple of bikes in Germany

VERY important words there.

The world has changed a LOT since that time, the accountants and lawyers are in control and any issue which could be regarded as litigious will be hushed up as quietly as possible these days to avoid opening the floodgates.

[johnnyjs1]

2ndwind, you are a dreamer if you think BMW will pay for out of warranty repairs. It's just not their way. I wish they would but have never heard of them doing so.

You sir....win a prize!!! BMW will do nothing for my recent failure

[SecondWind]

JohnnyS1
I am so sorry that the outcome of your case was that YOU MUST PAY for a Spline failure that SHOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED! If I were you I would utilize every media touchpoint at my disposal, some of which you mentioned - Certainly this forum, letters to BMW, getting BMOA to publish something, BOZERMANIA's Statistics, also do not diminish the powerful influence of YouTube or Break.Com for a Video of your BMW Trevails......a nice profile of your bike moving to a close up of your odometer, zoom in on the failed parts, then a zoom in on your repair bill (Covering the Dealer name and your info), with the final frames a Large for sale sign on your BMW to fade to black.

In addition, a Worldwide company that does not value the end customer DOES pay attention to LITIGATION, especially a Class Action, and I agree with the post re the Honda Windshields that this litigation is a great avenue to get the facts from BMW and get a response from BMW.

OU812
I am not a dreamer, and while the efforts to Right a Corporate wrong turn take time, persistence, teamwork, initiative, creativity, litigation, constant pressure, and metrics............the end result can sometimes be successful.

I am not the kind of guy who just plunks down $1400 for an unnecessary repair and walks away saing that it is OK.