Bad Gas, Clogged Filter, Both?

[brem]

The gas-dry stuff does seem to work pretty well. I once got a bad tank of gas in a fuel-injected '89 Civic and the water then got into the fuel lines and froze. Good times. Some gas dry, starter fluid and a 45-degree day sorted it out pretty well though and once it was running for a couple of minutes the gas-dry fluid seemed to have bonded to the water and passed out of the engine. My dad's lesson: don't buy gas when you can see the tanker on the premises. It sounds like even that isn't really good enough, though. It seems like gasoline-powered vehicles tend to have fuel pumps that pull fuel from not quite the bottom of the tank; does anyone know where the feed for the fuel pump is on the R?

[Ves]

It's pretty close to the bottom of the tank. With the tanks being as small as they are, can't really afford a big space.

How ironic... as I'm reading this thread I see this at the bottom of the page....



An add for making a car run on water and gas... HEY! It doesn't work!....

[GypsyRR]

[Sunbeemer]

An add for making a car run on water and gas...

Actually, it can! I had water injection on a Chevy 305cid that improved the response and cooled the combustion chamber enough to allow it tow a 10,000 lb. trailer using regular gas. Couldn't have done it otherwise, it would overheat and start pinging like crazy. The trick is to inject a metered amount of water during high intake manifold vacuum pressures (when there is little vacuum caused by hard acceleration), the opposite of the way most aerosol systems do it. An additional benefit was it kept the cylinders clean and carbon-free! But it must be a metered amount in proportion to the amount of gasoline being used, not a slug of water picked up by your fuel pump from a soggy tank.

[Ves]

An add for making a car run on water and gas...

Actually, it can! I had water injection on a Chevy 305cid that improved the response and cooled the combustion chamber enough to allow it tow a 10,000 lb. trailer using regular gas. Couldn't have done it otherwise, it would overheat and start pinging like crazy. The trick is to inject a metered amount of water during high intake manifold vacuum pressures (when there is little vacuum caused by hard acceleration), the opposite of the way most aerosol systems do it. An additional benefit was it kept the cylinders clean and carbon-free! But it must be a metered amount in proportion to the amount of gasoline being used, not a slug of water picked up by your fuel pump from a soggy tank.

Yeah, you're right. I did some messing around with water injection back in the day. I bought a kit from Warshawsky's (What is now J.C. Whitney). Basically a windshield washer pump with a jet on the end of the hose to spray a mist into the carb at low vacuum. But, I don't remember any fuel mileage gains.

[bgardner74]

Progress report. It started with a bad load of gas in early May, an emergency 20 mile flatbed trip to the dealer, two weeks in the shop and the general loss of June and July riding. The bike goes back to Cliff's Revolution, one of the only two BMW dealers in CT (the other is in East Hartford, close to 2 hours from here) this Saturday. Bike still hesitates. Starting up in the morning is still scary. It stalls out, backfires and takes miles to calm down. Drove it for 3 hours yesterday at highway speeds. Pretty good at high speed but with a degree of vibration that takes the fun out. It's like driving in first gear at high speed. Shakes like my old '74 Honda CB-450 did back in '74. And whenever running under 4,000 rpm, the 1150 hesitates...like a fuel line has a cholesterol blockage. Have tried dry gas and a few additions including Sea Foam. Better but no cigar.

To schedule returning the bike back in at the dealer, had to make an appointment 6 weeks ago, back in mid June. Nothing like waiting all winter for warm weather, dry pavement riding only to get screwed by a bad load of gas and what turned out to be a close to $300 repair bill for guesswork. Latest theory...it turns out some new BMWs are reporting the same symptoms, and the engineers from Germany are advising replacement of the coil(s); perhaps a $400 visit this time. And to think that up until its 12,000 mile tuneup in December, the bike was problem free.

The heart-sickening aspect to all this, for me, is that while BMW has done such an astoundingly effective marketing job for its cars, it has let the motorcycle dealer network languish and wither. Back when I got my first, an R90 in '76, there were 3 BMW dealers here in Fairfield county and one next door, in Westchester. If I remember correctly, some states now have more Harley dealers than BMW has nationwide. From Bimmer to bummer.

Will report back after the coming stay at the dealer.

Anybody else going through this? I've heard it is getting worse because premium gas sakes are way down.

[CycleRob]

bgardner74,

The symptoms now, after everything that's been changed and diagnosed, point to a clogged/gummy fuel injector. A partial or distorted fuel mist spray pattern will give the annoying driveability negatives you describe.

Premium fuel's low sales volume turnover means older fuel in the underground tanks.

.

[bgardner74]

Almost final chapter. For those who have not been following this thrilling soap opera, the pride of my life, my 04 R1150 went in for its 12,000 last winter. Late November. I picked it up on a day when the high was 27(F), put it in the garage, added Stabil to the tank, attached the BMW trickle charger and forgot about riding until late April. First sign of warm, took it out for a few short rides. All seemed fine. Then following two fillups, one on Sunday and the next one Wednesday (3 days later) in the first week of May — at the only station the bike has ever known — everything went south. After raining all day Thursday and Friday, the net time i took the bike out was Saturday. But couldn't start it. Called the dealer, they needed appointments for service with a 6 week lead time. But they felt sorry and if I could get the bike to them (20 miles from me) before they closed on Saturday, they would put me in a queue and work as time permitted. BMW roadside assistance found a flatbed and the bike was there at Cliff's Cycle Revolution in time...the only BMW dealer between Hartford and New York City. Okay, 2 weeks and almost $300 later, they said it was ready. I came, paid and got the bike. "Keep adding dry gas with each fillup" I was told. "It will take 5 or more tanks to get back to normal." I followed the instructions. Unlike ever before, the bike was a bear to start, ran rough, vibrated, backfired...what more could you ask? After a couple weeks with trips back to the dealer for more advice, including conflicting words about adding dry gas and not adding dry gas, I phoned for another appointment. The bike went back in 6 weeks later, last week to be exact. They called 5 days later and I was told all 4 plugs had been replaced, the tank drained and flushed and everything checked out. I asked if it was running smoothly. The service manager replied "Like a baby's butt."

I forgot to ask baby what. But, For another $232 which includes at $150 credit because of the previous work, the bike is better. I can start it and it has stopped back firing. i had it out for a couple hours today. But it hesitates (just the opposite of surging), loses power and vibrates like mad at any speed and rpm..you feel it in the seat, the footpegs and handgrips at idle and any speed.

What do I do now? Connecticut has only two BMW dealers. I've now lost all confidence in the one that's 20 miles away. The other is more than half way across the state. And with an equally long lead time. I am too old to learn how to service it.

Apart from not being able to restore the bike to the pre- water in gas running order, I know the service I got was guess work. Does it matter where the water came from. Ethanol? Condensation? Water in the gas station tank? The sad truth for me is that I don't have any answers or any remedies. There is not an identifiable qualified independent BMW service person in the state. I was planning a ride up to Lake Placid next month on some of the best roads in the east. It will be by car. Almost as rare as an honest politician are BMW motorcycle dealers. It's like they're going extinct, anothr by-product of global warming. And BMW doesn't give a hoot. (You know I don't mean "hoot.") Well, there is no other motorcycle I have any interest in. Ethanol is with us for the long haul. Driving a shaking, noisy 1150 is no joy.

With no solutions in sight, afraid I gotta bail.

PS My first BMW, a 76 R90 never had to face ethanol. Just high test. Ran great. Sold it 29 years later and it's still going great.

[brem]

That's quite a tale of woe. Sorry to hear about that. I'm experiencing some similar issues with hesitation and the engine missing, and I've been following this thread

[url]http://www.r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.p ... a&start=20[/url]

regarding the ignition coils. You might try Beemeridian's bad-coil-determination process and see if it gets you anywhere, although make sure to read the whole first page for the various opinions on the dangers of disconnecting plug wires during testing. I can say that I went through Beemeridian's testing process and haven't experienced any issues as yet with a messed-up secondary ignition coil, but having read these forums relatively thoroughly I would be [i]seriously[/i] reluctant to doubt CycleRob. Anyway, I've got a coil coming in a week that I'll put in and I'll update that thread.

Just to describe the behaviors so you can decide if it matches your experience at all, since about a month ago I've experienced the bike starting slightly less enthusiastically than normal, and gently misfiring below 2500rpm. This is especially noticeable going around 90-degree corners in first gear, because the bike will misfire and suddenly slow and then speed up again with a big spurt of torque when the next cylinder fires. I can also hear the misfiring if I just hold the throttle open between 1200-2200rpm, and the bike slows intermittently when moving with the throttle held to somewhere in that range. Last, during idling after it's warm it will miss and then vibrate more heavily. The idling basically sounds like a Harley, with that thump-thump-thump-(beat)-thumpthump-thump-thump, if you can parse that.

All that aside, anyone know why the site refuses to interpret my tags? Firefox 3 on Ubuntu amd64.

[MattPie]

All that aside, anyone know why the site refuses to interpret my tags? Firefox 3 on Ubuntu amd64.

I was wondering how your tags were being shown. It appears to work for me.

-Firefox 3 on Fedora 9, 64-bit but with Intel processors. I can check Ubuntu when I get home.