Western Union: secure during civil unrest?

[GypsyRR]

I need to send money to someone in Nairobi, Kenya. Given the civil unrest there and the known corruption, is it safe to send via western union? Chances of the recipient getting the money and not a western union employee, or gov't worker or police? What would be the best way to get money to someone there quickly,, if not by western union?

[TonyT607]

Hey Gyspy...generally speaking WU is pretty safe in Kenya; the fee can be a bit steep. The local merchants who are the WU agents would not risk their Agent relationship (i.e. income stream from fees) with WU by allowing shenanigans to go on. Many people send money to Kenya. The country's biggest Bank, KCB, is part of the network. I used to call on them in Nairobi when I was assigned to IBM Europe/Middle East/Africa.

Let me know if you want me to check with our guys on the ground there; they may know of an alternative that is easier/faster/safer.

I heard you can now send money in Kenya via a mobile phone; kind of like Paypal but using a mobile number instead of an email address.

[taosports]

Gypsy,

Contact the US embassy in Kenya. They'll have your answer.

[NoRRmad]

I have the same problem in Nigeria; a guy I met online needs to get a few million dollars out of his country and will give me a hefty percentage if I can just wire him a couple thousand to cover expenses.

[TonyT607]

Gypsy,

Contact the US embassy in Kenya. They'll have your answer.

I drove past the Embassy right after it was bombed - it was really creepy and sad.

[GypsyRR]

I have the same problem in Nigeria; a guy I met online needs to get a few million dollars out of his country and will give me a hefty percentage if I can just wire him a couple thousand to cover expenses.

I know you are only joking, but this is not the same thing, Craig. This is for friends I made while in Nairobi who's lives have been once again screwed up by corrupt governments and politicians who incited crowds. Both the Kikuyu tribe and the Luo tribe are represented in my friendships there. It is sad to see the division that came because of the elections.

The friend I made in the Kibera slum who runs a school and orphanage and feeding center had his compound destroyed and was almost killed by thugs with machetes. He has since moved to a safer place after serving people in Kibera for 27 years. There is no one at his compound now to care for the children who depended on him---- children seen in the pictures I posted here. Remember seeing the little kids behind barbed wire fences? Those are the children Simon fed and educated and gave shelter to. I don't know what will happen to them.

Over 1000 have died in six weeks of unrest there. Over 350,000 have been driven from their homes. I know I can't change the world, but I can help a few who's world has changed and left them scared, hungry, and wondering if anyone cares.

Here's one of the kids who doesn't have Simon's New Hope School to feed her or shelter her anymore. I liked this little girl, and when the picture is enlarged and clear - I can see myself in her eyes. It reminds me from whence I came, and reminds me who I am, and who I am not.

More photos of the kids from Simon's school and part of his school are at this photobucket site: http://s241.photobucket.com/albums/ff25 ... =4copy.jpg

[R4R&R]

I know you are only joking, but this is not the same thing, Craig. This is for friends I made while in Nairobi who's lives have been once again screwed up by corrupt governments and politicians who incited crowds. Both the Kikuyu tribe and the Luo tribe are represented in my friendships there. It is sad to see the division that came because of the elections.

The friend I made in the Kibera slum who runs a school and orphanage and feeding center had his compound destroyed and was almost killed by thugs with machetes. He has since moved to a safer place after serving people in Kibera for 27 years. There is no one at his compound now to care for the children who depended on him---- children seen in the pictures I posted here. Remember seeing the little kids behind barbed wire fences? Those are the children Simon fed and educated and gave shelter to. I don't know what will happen to them.

Over 1000 have died in six weeks of unrest there. Over 350,000 have been driven from their homes. I know I can't change the world, but I can help a few who's world has changed and left them scared, hungry, and wondering if anyone cares.

Gypsy,
It's great to hear that you're doing so much to help them out. It shows there are still people in this world that still care about others! Great job!

I have the same problem in Nigeria; a guy I met online needs to get a few million dollars out of his country and will give me a hefty percentage if I can just wire him a couple thousand to cover expenses.

Sweet! I want in on some of that!! Where do I send my money?

[NoRRmad]

I've said too much.

[Sunbeemer]

Bless you.

[towerworker]

Thank you for your heart Gypsy. I traveled thru Kenya two years ago on my way to Sudan. Spent a month in Sudan building 4 towers and installed a shortwave broadcast station for a ministry based here in the states. I really had my heart touched while over there. We truly don't know how very blessed we are to live where we do.

Wayne

[Dr. Strangelove]

Gypsy,

Good for you for attempting to be part of a solution. That is what we are put here to do I think. Weight of Glory stuff.

Maybe a call to the State Department for advice, but they may say stay out of it?

Could you explain just who the ethnic groups are that are fighting. News reports I get just describe them as that, warring ethnic groups. Are these families fighting familes--like the hatfields and McCoys or are these Muslims and Christians or socialists vs whoever? Is this similar to the Darfur conflict?

More power and our prayers are with your well-intentioned efforts and your friends' well-being and safety.

John

[GypsyRR]

Gypsy,

Good for you for attempting to be part of a solution. That is what we are put here to do I think. Weight of Glory stuff.

Ah ha! You've read CSL's Weight of Glory? I read that book when I first started seeking spiritual answers to questions that bugged me about things Christianity teaches. I appreciate his concept of the worth of a soul.

Maybe a call to the State Department for advice, but they may say stay out of it?

I was able to get money wired and it was received safely on the other end. The corruption and civil unrest concerned me, but another concern I had was for my friends who received the money. Once it is known that they are receiving support from abroad, then it could become dangerous for them once they leave the WU pick up station.

Could you explain just who the ethnic groups are that are fighting. News reports I get just describe them as that, warring ethnic groups. Are these families fighting familes--like the hatfields and McCoys or are these Muslims and Christians or socialists vs whoever? Is this similar to the Darfur conflict?

John

Okay - I’ll give a short answer and then a longer answer with some reasons behind my answers for anyone who wants to understand a little bit more of what is going on in Kenya. This is based purely on my observation, my conversations with Kenyans, and my opinion.

I cannot speak to the situation in Darfur, because I would be reluctant to speak about a country which I have not visited, and who's people I have not met or conversed with on the subject of their conflicts and laws.

The short answer is:

1. Yes -Mostly - it IS tribal - Kikuyu vs. Luo, but not just for the tribal namesake. It seems to have aligned that way because of the corruption and desire for a change in government. If another Kikuyu had been running against Kibaki on the platform of ‘change’, and Kenyans found out that the election was so close and rigged, my personal feeling is that the sentiment for change would have spawned the same sort of civil unrest - but probably not to the same degree.

2. The fact that Odinga (a Christian) aligned himself with the Islamic Fundamentalists, gives credence to the view that it is also a division along religious lines: Muslim vs. Christian. And some believe it has been the very vocal Islamic fundamentalist voice which has been inciting much of the unrest.

Now the Long Answer:
First some background facts:

There are over 40 tribes in Kenya. The two largest tribes are the Kikuyu and the Luo. Kenya has had 3 presidents since it’s Independence in 1963. 2 of them have been Kikuyu. The other was the second president and was from a small western tribe.

80% of Kenyans claim to be Christians. Neither the Luo, nor the Kikuyu tribes are Moslem tribes. Most of the Muslims in Kenya reside on the eastern coast and in the Northeast, and make up only 10% of the Kenyan population.

The Kikuyu tribe has come to be known as the tribe of politics and finance, to the exclusion of other tribes, Many Kenyans resent the Kikuyu tribe for that reason. So when the Dec. 2007 elections were getting underway, many Kenyans had decided to vote AGAINST Kikuyu regardless of the candidates. I heard this sentiment many times while I was there - even from among Kikuyu people. Before this recent unrest, the tribes lived as neighbors without trouble. The atrocities that ensued have segregated them to a degree now.

In 2002, Mwai Kibaki, a Kikuyu, was elected president in the first real free democratic election. One of the good things he did was to limit the presidential term to five years with a possible re-election. So Dec. 27, 2007 was the latest election.

Kibaki’s opponent was Raila Odinga, a Luo, who’s father was Oginga Odinga, a communist, who had opposed Kenya’s first president Kenyatta in the first election in 1963.

Because the government under Kibaki, a Kikuyu, continued to grow more corrupt and the police had become more blatant in their abuse of power to supplement their income (I saw this firsthand), many Kenyans were ready for change when Dec 2007 rolled around. In fact, Raila Odinga’s slogan was reduced to the one word “change.”

So, since 80% of the Kenyans are Christian, and both of the candidates claimed to be Christian, and because the election was so close and rigged (general consensus only - I don’t know that that has been proven) - it would seem that the main division in the civil unrest in Kenya is mainly due to tribal distinctions. Kikuyu vs Luo, with most of the smaller tribes aligning with the Luo. Since the general sentiment is that the elections were rigged and since they were hoping for change, the Luo tribe once again feels shut out because of the corruption of the present government.

HOWEVER, the Islamic Fundamentalist voice plays a part as well and may have incited some of the atrocities carried out by their followers against families who were seeking shelter in Christian churches.

Here is how the Muslim vs Christian aspect became entwined in the fighting to a degree:

In August 2007, Odinga (Christian Luo) signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the chairman of the National Muslim Leaders of Kenya - a perceived Fundamentalist group. They promise to do everything they can do to get Odinga elected in 12/07. If he is elected, there was a list of things they expected him to do. He signed the document. And if you read the document, it is pretty startling what he agrees to - especially if you sympathize at all with our "war on terror." You can find the document here: http://eakenya.org/newsevents/article.htm?id=8

(really - you should read that)


So from my understanding in the short time I have been acquainted with Kenya and some of her people, that’s the long answer to your question

Whew!

[NoRRmad]

(really - you should read that)

Seconded. A really nasty document. Does Odinga agree that he signed it?

[GypsyRR]

Yes, he agrees that he signed it. He was confronted about it a few times by concerned voters and organizations, and he defended his decision to sign it.

Oddly, he says, the MofU does not intend to limit the practices of other religions. Yet you can clearly see that it does in some of the 14 items and certainly seems to want to impose Islam on others. I don't have the document in front of me right now, but I think it was items g) h) i) j) which most directly address that- if I remember correctly. I can't fathom how he would have gotten those items pass a country which is 80% Christian. But - it's a country that is desperate for change and so I suppose anything is possible.

the last I heard, even though Odinga did not win the election, the desire to stabilize the country is causing pressure to be put on Kibaki to "share" the power with Odinga. I wonder if he will be somewhat held to those 14 things he agreed to do, if that ends up happening. Certainly, what is happening in Kenya will have negative effects on the security of America and Americans visiting Kenya. It has caused the cancellation of my trip there with a different organization in June. The Kenyans who survive from tourist dollars are not benefiting from this election, and they will not benefit from a "blending" of two corrupt deal makers either. (just my opinion)

[wncbmw]

One of my wife's friends has a son who volunteered for the Peace Corps and was sent to Kenya, just a few weeks before the unrest broke out. He was holed up in a house for weeks with no protection, except for assurances from State Department types, while people were being killed just a couple of miles away. They have just evacuated them this week.

Sad situation. Good of you to try to help Gypsy but the amount of work needed to get the African nations to govern themselves without bloodshed is truly breathtaking!

[Dr. Strangelove]

amazing that these points do not make it to our national news.


what does "InshaAllah" mean? "God Willing?"

thanks for the detailed explanation

John

[GypsyRR]

what does "InshaAllah" mean? "God Willing?"


John

Right. That's is it's essential meaning. I believe Insha'Allah is a transliteration.

[Sunbeemer]

This has been going on in in many parts of Africa forever, it seems. All the leaders of the north African nations I am familiar with have been struggling to do the same dance between the Islamic Zealots and their own national interests, which many of them perceive are not the same. They will go to extraordinary lengths (as shown by that audacious MofU) to accomodate the religious intolerance of the Moslems, as they're the loudest assembly having access to and control of the most ears. But leaders are often well-educated men with foreign ties who acknowledge that strict adherence to Islamic law is not always in the best interest of a forward thinking nation wishing to participate in the global economy, but need to make concessions to get the mullah's support to control the faithful for the leaders intended purpose. This is not over once elected, as demonstrated again by the provision calling for increased Islamification of Kenya in the MofU, but continues throughout the elected's term(s), thus ensuring he continuously works to gain the favor of the mullahs to ensure popluar support for his programs... This is not about corruption, it is about sharing power with a religion that has a scripted plan for a total lifestyle.

If you remove the religious components, it is not so disimilar from our own system of checks and balances type government (which was originally established for the purpose of removing this religious component by people who fled from religious intolerance)

What's important to understand about their way of doing things is that their religion is much more entertwined with every facet of their lives than anything we know here, even the most fire and brimstone holy rollers aren't nearly as controlled by the Good Book as most Moslems are by their Koran...because our laws are secular, there's are all inclusive.

It may be ostrich-like to think we can all live together on this Earth by respecting each others differences without imposing our system on others, but given the extreme differences I've seen between cultures, philosphies and beliefs, I think this should eventually become apparent to our leaders as the best way to conduct foreign policy.

Convincing other nations to have the same respect for our system will take more convincing... Right now we aren't setting a good example, albeit a necessary one?