BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

History of the bike:
It is a 2008 R1200R with 53,000 miles. I do my own service and am currently using Castrol 4T 20W-50 engine oil. I change the oil and filter every 3000 miles. I changed the original transmission oil at 24,000 miles with BMW 75W-140 synthetic gear lube. I just changed the transmission oil with the BMW 75W-140 gear lube. I bought the bike used in 2010 with 1300 miles on it. I do not run the motor hard. I usually shift gears around 4500 to 5000 RPM. I typically cruse at 4000 RPM. I just checked the valves, Cleaned and lubed the idle servo motors, and did a throttle body sinc.

Noise at Startup:
When I start the bike I get some real loud clacks that go away after a few seconds. If the bike is left on the side stand the clacks are loud. If the bike is left on the center stand the clacks are not as loud or non- existent. This morning I started the bike after it was left on the center stand overnight and the clacks did not happen. The clacks seem to be coming from the right side cylinder of the bike, right side is the side looking down when sitting on the bike.

I am thinking that this problem is the cam chain tensioner. When the bike is on the side stand the oil runs away from the area. When it is on the center stand the oil stays in the area and the clack does not happen. I looked in my manual and the right side tensioner is easy to replace. The left side is much worse. The manual states relaxing the timing chain is necessary to get the parts out. One you-tube video showed someone using a magnet to get the plunger out of the engine without messing with the timing chain. Is it OK to change just the right tensioner? Or would I need to do both? Could this problem be something other than the tensioner?

Transmission Noise:
When the bike is in neutral and the clutch lever is not squeezed the transmission is rather loud. It seems to get a little louder as the bike warms up. When I squeeze the clutch lever the noise is gone. If I pump the lever in and out a few times quickly the noise gets a little quieter. All of the noise is at idle. If I rev the motor to 1500-1800 RPM the noise goes away. I have read few treads talking about transmission noise and this seems to be a common thing with the BMW transmissions and the boxer engine.

This is my first BMW. I are all of these things common and just something that the BMW Boxer engine and transmission does as it gets more miles on it? Am I worrying about a problem that does not exist? I love the bike and hope to get many more miles out of it. If there is a problem I want to fix it. If not I will just keep on riding it.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Roger L

roger l wrote:History of the bike:
It is a 2008 R1200R with 53,000 miles. I do my own service and am currently using Castrol 4T 20W-50 engine oil. I change the oil and filter every 3000 miles. I changed the original transmission oil at 24,000 miles with BMW 75W-140 synthetic gear lube. I just changed the transmission oil with the BMW 75W-140 gear lube. I bought the bike used in 2010 with 1300 miles on it. I do not run the motor hard. I usually shift gears around 4500 to 5000 RPM. I typically cruse at 4000 RPM. I just checked the valves, Cleaned and lubed the idle servo motors, and did a throttle body sinc.

Noise at Startup:
When I start the bike I get some real loud clacks that go away after a few seconds. If the bike is left on the side stand the clacks are loud. If the bike is left on the center stand the clacks are not as loud or non- existent. This morning I started the bike after it was left on the center stand overnight and the clacks did not happen. The clacks seem to be coming from the right side cylinder of the bike, right side is the side looking down when sitting on the bike.

This is one of those "they all - almost - do it" sort of things. Mine has been doing it for about 85,000 miles.

I am thinking that this problem is the cam chain tensioner. When the bike is on the side stand the oil runs away from the area. When it is on the center stand the oil stays in the area and the clack does not happen. I looked in my manual and the right side tensioner is easy to replace. The left side is much worse. The manual states relaxing the timing chain is necessary to get the parts out. One you-tube video showed someone using a magnet to get the plunger out of the engine without messing with the timing chain. Is it OK to change just the right tensioner? Or would I need to do both? Could this problem be something other than the tensioner?

At one point, as my extended warranty was running out, I decided to replace both tensioners. It was a DIY, except the port side one you need to remove the throttle body to get to it, and R&R of the TB requires a special pair of pliers to release and reinstall the bands that hold it in place. The pliers are available from NAPA dealers or Amazon for about $15. There was a rather long discussion on throttle bodies here a few months ago that included info on getting the pliers.

That said - I wouldn't bother.

Mine has been doing it for at least 85,000 miles now. Doesn't get worse, sometimes is better. The noise did not go away with new tensioners installed. That was a waste of $$ and time. It will go away if I change the oil to Castrol TWS 10W-60 (a BMW specific oil made for the M// engine cars) for about 3,000 miles or so. TWS really resists viscosity breakdown (I've had it tested) so when it's newish it tends to stay in place - in the tensioner.

Transmission Noise:
When the bike is in neutral and the clutch lever is not squeezed the transmission is rather loud. It seems to get a little louder as the bike warms up. When I squeeze the clutch lever the noise is gone. If I pump the lever in and out a few times quickly the noise gets a little quieter. All of the noise is at idle. If I rev the motor to 1500-1800 RPM the noise goes away. I have read few treads talking about transmission noise and this seems to be a common thing with the BMW transmissions and the boxer engine.

Also a "they all do that.." sort of thing. Simple - get good ear plugs. It's much less annoying. When the engine is idling PERFECTLY (rare, but once in a while it happens) the noise isn't there.

Want to really scare yourself? Run the bike in gear on the centerstand (rear-wheel off the ground naturally).. the same impulses that cause the transmission rattle can get the entire driveline rattling, and it's quite impressive to watch and listen to. There is a lot of tolerance stacking (aka SLOP) in a BMW driveline, so the freeplay allows the driveline to accelerate and then slow down a bit - causing the knocking noises.

Good ear plugs will help.

This is my first BMW. I are all of these things common and just something that the BMW Boxer engine and transmission does as it gets more miles on it? Am I worrying about a problem that does not exist? I love the bike and hope to get many more miles out of it. If there is a problem I want to fix it. If not I will just keep on riding it.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Roger L

Ear plugs, then go ride it. And you can move your oil change intervals to something reasonable like 6,000 miles. If you're worried about that - have Blackstone analyze a sample of your 3,000 mile oil. I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing.

95,500+ miles on mine, and it still makes me smile every time I ride it..

Don:
Thanks for the reply. I thought that was going to be the case but I started hearing some noises and right away the worry beads came out and I started fearing the worse. When I started hearing the transmission noise I thought it was just looseness in the transmission so I put the bike on the center stand and ran it slowly in first gear thinking that when the transmission was loaded from driving the back wheel it would quiet down. Boy was I wrong. I was AMAZED at the noises that it made.

When I went to Castrol 4T 20W-50 oil I sent a sample to Blackstone labs. They said that the oils could go at least to 6000 miles. I am still brainwashed that you need to change oil at 3000 miles. For the cost of the Castrol oil it is good peace on mind to change at 6000 miles. How many miles do you go on the TWS 10W-60 oil?

For the cam chain tensioners the parts Microfiche I found from A&S BMW shows a hydraulic tensioner for the left side and a spring tensioner for the right side. I found a link on adventure forums showing the removal of the left side tensioner and it was a spring tensioner that was replaced by a hydraulic tensioner. Did BMW make a change to the hydraulic one from the spring one? Why would the bike not clack when it was on the center stand and it does on the side stand? Does the oil stay on the cam chain when it is on the center stand?

I do wear ear plugs when I ride the bike. When I started hearing noises I started listening for them. I just got back from a 600 mile trip to the Finger Lakes area of New York. The bike ran GREAT. I am going to stop listening for the noises, put away my worry beads, and just ride the bike. Hopefully the next 50,000 miles will be as good as the first.

Thanks Again

Roger L

roger l wrote:Don:
Thanks for the reply. I thought that was going to be the case but I started hearing some noises and right away the worry beads came out and I started fearing the worse. When I started hearing the transmission noise I thought it was just looseness in the transmission so I put the bike on the center stand and ran it slowly in first gear thinking that when the transmission was loaded from driving the back wheel it would quiet down. Boy was I wrong. I was AMAZED at the noises that it made.

Scary isn't it? I haven't tried it on a brand new one, but bet it isn't much different.

When I went to Castrol 4T 20W-50 oil I sent a sample to Blackstone labs. They said that the oils could go at least to 6000 miles. I am still brainwashed that you need to change oil at 3000 miles. For the cost of the Castrol oil it is good peace on mind to change at 6000 miles. How many miles do you go on the TWS 10W-60 oil?

Usually 6,000 miles, just because that's when other stuff on the bike is due, so if I need to adjust the valves or something like that - (they actually have only needed adjusting twice.. usually I just measure them, and I've moved that to 12k intervals now) it's all done at the same time.

I did go 7500+ miles on the last change - which was from NJ to CA back to NJ. Level dropped about 1/8" in the oil window. Blackstone had several times suggested I could go further then 6,000 miles on the oil, so I wasn't concerned about exceeding 6,000.

The big reason I use the TWS - well there are several: It holds viscosity for a LONG time, per my Blackstone tests. It doesn't appear to sheer to a lower viscosity; It holds viscosity as it gets hot, and has a very high ash point (where it burns); and finally - the engine has the "new oil feel" longer with the TWS. It's not a lot different in price from the BMW semi-synthetics, and it was spec'd for the HP2 bike engine (hotted up version of our engines.)

For the cam chain tensioners the parts Microfiche I found from A&S BMW shows a hydraulic tensioner for the left side and a spring tensioner for the right side. I found a link on adventure forums showing the removal of the left side tensioner and it was a spring tensioner that was replaced by a hydraulic tensioner. Did BMW make a change to the hydraulic one from the spring one? Why would the bike not clack when it was on the center stand and it does on the side stand? Does the oil stay on the cam chain when it is on the center stand?

The Fiches are fooked up I think. IIRC - they were all hydraulic tensioners - with springs in them to keep them extended when the engine wasn't running. I could look at the ones I swapped out if you really need to know. Some of the on-line DIY's are really for the R1150xx series engines, where the "fix" for the "clack" on those was to install an R1200XX tensioner on the port side (#2) cylinder. So it can get confusing. So far I haven't heard of anyone permanently eliminating the startup clack by swapping out tensioners. Mebbe I missed it - but I don't think so.

As far as why it's quieter coming off the centerstand - simple, oil doesn't drain down as quickly from the right cylinder head when the engine is level. WAG but I think the oil tends to stay in the tensioner better.

I do wear ear plugs when I ride the bike. When I started hearing noises I started listening for them. I just got back from a 600 mile trip to the Finger Lakes area of New York. The bike ran GREAT. I am going to stop listening for the noises, put away my worry beads, and just ride the bike. Hopefully the next 50,000 miles will be as good as the first.

Thanks Again

Roger L

You'll love it.. wonderful bikes. When I got back from riding C2C2C, I was still raring to go, but family obligations made me come home. I'm trying to figure out how I can sneak away for a few weeks later in the summer. There are parts of Canada I haven't been to..

the answer to your clacking problem is quite simple- your rocker arms are beginning to get out of tolerances--end of story. just that simple.

I needed to make an appointment to take my bike in for the rear flange recall and a fuel strip so I stopped by my local BMW dealer to make the appointment and to have one of the techs listen to my bike. I started the bike and it did the clack clack thing. He agreed that it was the timing chains slapping at startup. I let out the clutch and he listened to the transmission. He listened for a while. He went to both sides of the bike, squeezed the clutch a few times, listened some more and said that it probably is the clutch making noise. He said that sometimes when he lets the clutch out it is quieter than other times so he thinks that the clutch plate is warped a little and depending on where it catches it is noisier that other times. He suggested that I bring the bike in over the winter when they are slow and have them look at the clutch.

As for the clack clack on start up I asked about replacing the timing chain tensioners / lifters. He said not to bother. He has replaced them on other bikes and that most of the time it does not solve the problem. He said that the timing chains have stretched a little but they should not cause a problem other than the noise at startup. Many of the R bikes clack like that on startup

So I am going to keep riding the bike for the rest of the season and this winter I will see what I want to do about the clutch. I might get ambitious and try doing the job myself. I need to read the manual and see what it entails.

Roger L