BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

So on the recent service I did to the 12R and Nancy's G650GS my dealer informed me that the new recommended oil is 15w50 SEMI-synthetic for both bikes.

I was apprehensive about changing to a semi-synth on my high mileage R, but they showed me the service bulletin. I didn't read the fine print to see if it effects the cam-head bikes, but am a little surprised. Since my 07' came out they've changed the recommended oil weight at least once, maybe twice, but never the type. I've always followed their recommendations and ran BMW oil whenever I can because I believe the engineers know more than me on what's best for the bike and buying rebranded BMW oil at my local dealer keep our relationship warm and fuzzy. (post Chicago BMW)
Apparently a change from Spectro oil to Castrol is part of the new oil...
I went with the flow and used the new (RED!!) oil, though I might actually send this batch out for analysis to Blackstone after 6K, (which they said is still the recommended interval) I hadn't really bothered on the R before but I want some reassurance of what's going on in there... my bike has to stay trouble free until the wethead R's come out.

$5 per quart (yes they are quarts not liters) cheaper is fine by me as long as it still does it's job.

Any thoughts about the new recommendation?

Don?

Damn, I thought I had this oil thing figured out.

Thanks for the info.

Looks like they want to stock an oil for the newer wet clutch BMWs. I thought they all ran a 10W-40 oil?

Did I hear my name called?

I've abandoned BMW oil (after using it for 68,000 miles.) My last change was with an oil I'd been intending to try for a long time. It's a BMW "Approved" oil - approved for the S54 "M" engine (highest output normally aspirated per CC engine as I remember - ever.)

BMW had some problems with camshaft staring (where the surface of the cam breaks down due to metal to metal impacts at high RPMs) and with bearings on the S54 engine. Their first try at a fix was working with Castrol Germany to design an oil to address the issue. The result was Castrol TWS oil - a 10W-60 full class V synthetic. It has every property you'd want in an oil for the roadsters as far as I can see. Great resistance to viscosity breakdown, a high "ash" point (where the oil starts to char), good viscosity retention at high temperatures, and a package of additives that sounds like it was made for a motorcycle engine - that uses flat-tappets (as ours do.) It has since been renamed and is called "Castrol Edge 10W-60". It comes in liter bottles, made in the EU, and is generally available at any BMW car dealer. If you mention the BMW Car Club of America (I am a long time member) - price is around $11/liter or so.

Did it make a noticeable difference in the engine - yup. Sounded quieter - immediately after changing it. Now with 3,000 miles on it - it still sounds quieter. Most fresh oil gives the "new oil" feel - when the viscosity is still what the oil started out as. Problem is - that goes away with use. So far it hasn't on the TWS.

My experience with it in my cars with S54 engines has been excellent. I've had Blackstone test the oil several times, and they were kind enough to test a "virgin" sample to get baseline measurements. So far - on the cars - the oil has performed great - retaining viscosity and with the additive package holding up. Blackstone has mentioned several times that I could extend (almost double) my change interval on the car (factory sez 15,000 mile changes, I do changes at 7,500 miles - which is actually a long time since the car gets very few miles put on it, I'm usually on the bike.)

I'll be sending a sample off to Blackstone when the oil is due to be changed - probably when I return from Nova Scotia mid-month in September. I'll try to remember to post the results here.

More info then you needed - but - it's also being used on the West Coast by "thepeacebullgrunt" (Hi Frederik!)

I have gone thinner than 50W, not thicker like Don. Running VR-1 mixed to about 15W-40 in my Camhead. Passing 5000miles now and plan to change and sample at 5500. Will post results from the lab when received.

I had a 2001 f650gs a couple of years ago and talking to a service manager (Atlanta BMW) he said BMW was recommending 15w50 then for the thumpers and the boxers.The 650 has a wet clutch and was using 10w40 up til then . I have been running Castrol 20w50 (motorcycle type) in the boxer.
Seems like more talk about using semi- synthetic lately. I don't use synthetic in my crank case for two reasons neither scientific, one is the cost and the fact that people tend to go farther between oil changes the oil might hold up which I suspect it does but you still have contaminents building up and asking your oil filter to do double duty or close to it. The other reason is I know of at least 4-5 boxers that have used only synthetic since new and they all burn oil I also know of a couple that used dino the first 10-15k and they don't use oil. My bike has never used synthetic and it does not use oil it is changed every 3000-3500 miles.
I wonder if after break in if semi is the way to go.
It is all I use in my Fords (Motorcraft) as it is recommended but I don't have any high mileage ones to know. My wifes Honda Crv has 290k+ on dino and still does not use oil.
I owned Toyota P.U. and the manual stated that all combustion engines used oil and the reason the oil level appears to stay constant is that it is being replaced with contaminants from the fuel as it burns or at least that was the jist of what I remember.
Mike

ammolab wrote:I have gone thinner than 50W, not thicker like Don. Running VR-1 mixed to about 15W-40 in my Camhead. Passing 5000miles now and plan to change and sample at 5500. Will post results from the lab when received.

"Thinner and thicker" are really a simplification. The 10W-60 and 15W-40 will be very close in "thickness" at 100C..

A good discussion on oil labeling and viscosity is at: http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Oil_Labelling_Explained - this also explains the reason a full Class-V synthetic base oil is a good thing (which the TWS has.) It helps the oils longevity.

In general - the second number should be thought of as the oils resistance to thinning when it get hot. The higher the number the greater the resistance. ALL oils will be thinner when hot vs when cold. The bottom number is of concern on cold startup, when you want the oil to flow easily to get to the metal-to-metal contact points on the engine quickly. How low you want that number is somewhat related to how cold is the weather you're willing to ride in. For me, I generally park the bike below 0C (30F roughly), but I want an oil that will lubricate the engine well on startup at any temperature above that. I also want an oil that will resist thinning if I get stuck in traffic on a hot day with the engine basically idling.

YMMV, and any quality oil is "good" and likely more than adequate for the majority of riders needs.

deilenberger wrote:More info then you needed - but - it's also being used on the West Coast by "thepeacebullgrunt" (Hi Frederik!)

We're drinking the TWS 10w60 Kool-Aid in Maryland, too. Tastes great!

10-40 Castro Synthetic.

Oh - one other thing I haven't noticed with TWS. The clatter of my left-side cam chain on startup. Even after replacing the original chain tensioner it still did the 5-10 second clatter on startup occasionally. I just realized when thinking about it - I haven't heard that noise since I did switched oils about 3,000 miles ago. That to me is a GOOD thing.

websterize wrote:

deilenberger wrote:More info then you needed - but - it's also being used on the West Coast by "thepeacebullgrunt" (Hi Frederik!)

We're drinking the TWS 10w60 Kool-Aid in Maryland, too. Tastes great!

Notice any difference in how the engine sounds/feels? Just curious..

ammolab wrote:I have gone thinner than 50W, not thicker like Don. Running VR-1 mixed to about 15W-40 in my Camhead. Passing 5000miles now and plan to change and sample at 5500. Will post results from the lab when received.

Since you have the S54 engine in your M-Coupe (as I do..) it simplifies oil purchasing decisions to just use it in both BMWs. Instead of the 6 quarts for the Coupe - just order 10..

captaincable wrote:I had a 2001 f650gs a couple of years ago and talking to a service manager (Atlanta BMW) he said BMW was recommending 15w50 then for the thumpers and the boxers.The 650 has a wet clutch and was using 10w40 up til then . I have been running Castrol 20w50 (motorcycle type) in the boxer.
Seems like more talk about using semi- synthetic lately. I don't use synthetic in my crank case for two reasons neither scientific, one is the cost and the fact that people tend to go farther between oil changes the oil might hold up which I suspect it does but you still have contaminents building up and asking your oil filter to do double duty or close to it. The other reason is I know of at least 4-5 boxers that have used only synthetic since new and they all burn oil I also know of a couple that used dino the first 10-15k and they don't use oil. My bike has never used synthetic and it does not use oil it is changed every 3000-3500 miles.
I wonder if after break in if semi is the way to go.
It is all I use in my Fords (Motorcraft) as it is recommended but I don't have any high mileage ones to know. My wifes Honda Crv has 290k+ on dino and still does not use oil.
I owned Toyota P.U. and the manual stated that all combustion engines used oil and the reason the oil level appears to stay constant is that it is being replaced with contaminants from the fuel as it burns or at least that was the jist of what I remember.
Mike

Mike - that's where the oil testing from Blackstone is of value. The Toyota PU may have been an old carbureted one, and in that case the mixture could be rich enough at times for gasoline to wash past the rings on startup. Not the case with a modern engine.. thanks to closed-loop fuel injection. The Blackstone test includes measuring any fuel in the oil, and any anti-freeze (not an issue with the R12R obviously.) On tests I've had done - the fuel test always comes in way below the "expected" values Blackstone offers, indicating that the statement from Toyota isn't necessarily true now. They also measure embedded solids (stuff like carbon from the combustion process) and again - those numbers are quite low, indicating the filter is still doing an adequate job. My changes are at 6,000 mile intervals, but depending on what I hear back from Blackstone, I may more that out to 7,500 mile changes (and get the oil tested after 7,500 miles.) That should make for 2 oil changes a year for me.

Mine switched to synthetic at the 6,000 mile oil change, when oil consumption had dropped to about 1/2 quart between changes. Now at +71k miles - oil use is basically nil. It simply doesn't change level in the window anymore.

There are lots of car engines that are now delivered with synthetic in the crankcase (my Porsche for instance..) - and don't have any problem with oil burning.

deilenberger wrote:Notice any difference in how the engine sounds/feels? Just curious..

A quieter engine but also more soot on the tail pipe since switching to the TWS 10w60 this past April. Had been using Motorrad's 15w50 synthetic, which I switched to at the 6,000-mile service. Am nearing the 18,000-mile service. (Gimme a break, I got a 3-year-old.)

deilenberger wrote:

ammolab wrote:I have gone thinner than 50W, not thicker like Don. Running VR-1 mixed to about 15W-40 in my Camhead. Passing 5000miles now and plan to change and sample at 5500. Will post results from the lab when received.

Since you have the S54 engine in your M-Coupe (as I do..) it simplifies oil purchasing decisions to just use it in both BMWs. Instead of the 6 quarts for the Coupe - just order 10..

May do that, but still have VR-1 that was almost free except for sales tax on a Valvoline rebate...that and I am waiting to see if TWS "saves" my second set of Rod bearings on the S54. Original set was done @ 60,000 in spite of that magical oil.

Thanks for that insight Don, always thought it would be odd to replace the oil with the exact amount of contaminates , the truck was fuel injected might try to find the manual on line too see the exact wording odd that a company of their size and history would make a statement like that , it was my 1st Toyota and I remember being impressed at how much info was in the manual compared to other vehicles. Good to know you can stech a oil change a few hundred miles if need be.
Off to work
Mike

Sold … just contacted our local BMW dealer and they have the Castrol TWS 10w60 for $14 (liter bottle) … they said, "Sure, that's what we run in our M series vehicles…"

BLAIR1200R wrote:Sold … just contacted our local BMW dealer and they have the Castrol TWS 10w60 for $14 (liter bottle) … they said, "Sure, that's what we run in our M series vehicles…"

When you go to pick it up - mention the BMW Car Club of America (hopefully they won't ask to see your card) - that's usually good for 10-15% off on parts.

Oh - dunno if I mentioned it - in searching the PN of the TWS oil, it appeared on BMW's motorcycle parts listing. For the HP4 - the high performance version of our engine. I found that quite encouraging - apparently someone in Germany was thinking along the same lines I was..

Its a good oil this Castrol!
I am using it since almost a month with my usual Chevron 91 and I can feel a difference in noise, vibration, acceleration & torque. Also my engine seems to run better at start up... it start better and run better the first 3 or 5mns.

Thanks Don for the advice.

Does anyone switch weight oils due to weather ? Seems like the 10w60 might fit the around around bill.Am curious why soot was building up on exhaust tip since switching to 10w60 oil as someone mentioned. I have 20w50 Castrol in my shop for the next change might try the 10w60 after that. Am curious what people are running in their trans, I am running Mobil One (75 w90 )as of last oil change but it seems to shift a little notchy. Thanks for any advice
Mike