BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I have been reading through many previous posts on this board about performance exhaust systems and I am very confused. There seem to be many performance systems for the BMW R1150R but there seems to be a lot of controversy about them. I have just bought a used BMW R1150R. It is a great bike but I would like to add performance and sound.

Do the performance pipes for the R1150R work and increase performance? If so which ones are the best? If not, why don't they work?

Any advice would be appreciated.

If you're after a better sound an aftermarket can will do it but don't expect much (if any) performance gain.

The biggest performance gains are made when you replace the cat.

Here's one option...and the cheapest.

DJ

performance systems for the BMW R1150R

I don't consider any of the pipes performance systems, now if want a different look or better sound, then spend away. Weight savings is also possible w/ aftermarket system.

If you just want better sound, drop the can...like our friend down under.

I don't consider any of the pipes performance systems

Why?

http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/r1150r_brad.html


This link is to the local BMW dealer and its mechanic's performance pages.
He did Dyno's etc and has set out all his findings.
He posts irregularly on the board but his personal R1150R graphs the search for the perfect combination.

Why?

Because "performance sytems" usually mean measurable gains. I have yet to see a documentable gain that is worth the money spent.

But, some have reported that they feel the bike runs better, or that the power delivery is smoother.

Of the many bikes I've had in past, this is the first one I've not put another pipe on. Just couldn't justify the money spent.

Others many say the money is well spent.

Just my 2 pennies.

New Guest......your best bet.

See the post right below yours......- 10 pounds, + $5 for the exhaust tip + 15 minutes of your time to remove the stock muffler and it shows that wheel like nothing else.

Nough' said..............

big papa.......

Being an avid participant of this thread and having read many of your posts........

I only have one question, can you name one possesion of your's where the money wasn't well spent. Obviously the BMW is excluded.....it is hard to believe that you have never pizzed any moola away..........

Tooo many times, that's the problem. And will piss some more away next year on one of the K bikes. I can't wait!!!


Oh, and it will have a pipe for sure!!!

You are not going to get much performance by changing pipes and if you make a big change you should rechip. If you wanted a perfomance bike then you picked the wrong bike. But you can get a smoother better sounding lighter bike by changing pipes.

I guess I just don't get it. Several sources including one listed in this thread show horsepower and torque gains but yet some of you say it isn't worth it. I don't understand. With gains of 6 to 8 horsepower which is about 8 to 10% that would be respectable. One poster says he would put a pipe on a K series four cylinder but not on a twin cylinder R but wouldn't the percentage gain be about the same?

DJ - How loud is your bike without the can?

yjleesvrr wrote:DJ - How loud is your bike without the can?

It is not much louder. You get a bit more growl.

I ran without a muffler for a while, but recently put the muffler back on because I like the looks better and because I am commuting more with ear plugs on and cannot hear, anyway.

I do like the sound better without a muffler. The nice thing about this option is that it is almost free, and it takes 10 minutes to try it out. If you don't like it, you just put the muffler back on and you are only out the cost of the tip.

DJ - How loud is your bike without the can?

That's right..It's not much louder...more of a deeper sound.

We have strict requirements for sound here...so I had an official sound check done and it passed at 94db.

I've been running mine like this for almost three years now.

DJ

Ya' know...

Every time one of these exhaust system threads comes along I have to laugh...

You get lines like:

Because "performance sytems" usually mean measurable gains. I have yet to see a documentable gain that is worth the money spent.

And:

You are not going to get much performance by changing pipes...

Now let's examine this a bit more analytically...

We have one *DOCUMENTED* source (http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/r1150r_brad.html) that shows a *STOCK* 1150 Oilhead makes 78 to 79 HP at the rear wheel, as evidenced by four different 1150's - both GS's and R's.

Next you will see that the addition of an exhaust system (and a re-mapped EPROM in this case) shows an increase - on *TWO* different 1150's - to minimum of 85.0 HP, and ot as much as 85.4 HP...

Now, worse case scenario - going from 79.0 HP to only 85.0 HP - is a gain of 6 HP, or about a 7% increase... Pretty impressive without cracking a case, and as the article shows, much more cost effective and less labor intensive than adding the cams, which showed a similar increase.

Before we take this to the next logical step, let's look at something from Laser's exhaust system website regarding re-mapped EPROM's... Go to there main page at:

http://www.laser-jama.nl/uk/Main.html

And navigate yourself to the "Bikes" page, and then click on the "Product Info" button on the left, then on the "FAQ" button. Scroll down to the bottom of the page where it says:

What is the purpose of using a powerchip on my BMW?

For some models of BMW motorcycles LASER offers the LASER Powerchip. This device has to be placed into the motronic unit and is build to improve drivability. It increases torque and makes the engine run smoother in the lower and middle rpm range. The increase in top performance is limited.

Here we have an exhaust system manufacturer who clearly states that a re-mapped EPROM "chip" will *NOT* significantly increase top end power, but will aid driveability, allow the engine to operate more smoothly in the low and mid range, and increase torque... So from these two sources we can draw a logical conclusion that the pipe has more to do with horsepower gain on an 1150 Oilhead engine while the chip has more to do with gains in mid-range torque and smoothing throttle response. This makes an enormous amount of sense when you consider that modern day fuel-injected motorcycle engines have to run lean in the low to mid RPM range because that's where the various government environmental regulatory agencies take their emissions readings... So "richening up" an engine, via a re-mapped EPROM, should have its greatest effect in that same RPM range.

Okay, back to HP gains from pipes...

We have one poster here who says he is going to be buying one of the new BMW K-1200 four-cylinder bikes, and states:

Oh, and it will have a pipe for sure!!!

Now this same poster previously stated that "performance systems" mean "measureable gains"...

Well, to stay current, let's take a look at a recent issue of "Sport Rider" magazine for a good example of quality exhaust systems on inline four-cylinder engines, shall we?

In the August 2005 issue, on page 86, the scribes at "Sport Rider" fitted a new Arata titanium full exhaust system - header pipes, can, the works - to a 2005 Kawasaki ZX-10R. Stock, their ZX-10 showed 160.1 HP at the rear wheel. Once they had fitted the Arata pipe (which showed a bigger HP increase than the Tsukigi exhaust they had fitted previosuly) the bike showed a horsepower gain to 167.0, or a 6.9 HP increase over stock...

It doesn't take a mathematical genius to see that is only a 4.1% HP gain, right?

Now, I ask you; which is a better percentage horsepower increase - a 4.1% one or a 7% one?

Which is going to make a bigger difference in the "real world" - a 6 HP gain on a 79 HP bike, or a 7 HP gain on a 160 HP one?

Now, for the kicker... The Arata exhaust for that Kawasaki costs a walloping $1499 !!! Add another $100 bucks if you want air-fuel sensor bosses on the header pipes, BTW...

I bought my Staintune cat-eliminator, brand new, off e-Bay for $300, and I got my Neptune muffler right here off the "Buy, Sell & Trade" page of this board for $230, so I have $530 wrapped up in my exhaust system. I also just bought a full Laser HotCam exhaust off e-Bay for only $250, and it looks brand new (after a bit of clean up and polishing). I haven't installed the Laser rig yet, but I will one day when I have some spare time. I also sourced a re-mapped EPROM "chip" from the same "Brad Black" in the MotoOne article mentioned above (Thanks, Brad!) for only $200...

So depending on how you want to look at it, I could have as little as $450 wrapped up in a performance exhaust, or as much as $730... But let's take the more expensive option and do a cost-benefit ratio study comparing that Arata ZX-10 exhaust and the more expensive option for my R-1150-R...

The Arata on the ZX-10 gains 6.9 horsepower for a cost of $1499 - or a whopping cost of $217.24 per horsepower gained!!!

Worst case scenario my R-1150-R gains 6 HP (and maybe more), and if you take my most expensive combination shown above - the Staintune, Neptune, UltiMap chip at $730 - you get a cost per horsepower gained of only $121.66.

Now if you take the used, e-Bay Laser HotCam full system (which should show even a better HP gain, but we'll stick with 6 for comparison purposes here...) at $250 and the UltiMap UM872 chip from Aussieland, you get a total cost of $450, and the cost per horsepower drops to $75.00 per HP gained!

I'll take a 7% increase in engine output any time, any way, I can get it without cracking a case, and horsepower never comes cheap, but $75 bucks per pony is about as cheap as you will *EVER* find it...

And we won't even mention the weight loss, improved throttle response, decreased heat output to rider and gearbox from the loss of the catalytic converter, improved efficiency and fuel mileage, etc....

Oh, and BTW, 7% is certainly "measureable"... Just think, if you bench-pressed 250 lbs., and could increase your strength just 7%, you would be pumping 267.5 lbs.! Or if you ran the hundred in 12 seconds and you could go 7% faster you would be clocking an 11.16... But better yet, if you made $85,000 a year, and got a 7% raise, you'd be raking in $90,950! Not bad...

Just food for thought...

Cheers!

Dallara

i did'nt read any of the prior replys BUT!!!!! i have an 04 blk w/abs and when i removed the stock system and had a remus with y installed by the dealer and a K &N filter i noticed big improvements all across the board and the sound [to me] is the best , it just makes it better period..............

But Beekstersocal...

Don't you understand that can't possibly be so?

No way! Not even a chance! Beyond conceivability! You can't be right!

(sarcasm on) Don't you know that there are no power, torque, driveability, throttle response, heat loss, weight loss, etc. to be gained by an aftermarket exhaust system, and that you would be daft to spend money on such a fruitless piece of hardware? (sarcasm off)...

Why is it the poeple who say that mounting an aftermarket exhaust system is not an improvement are the same ones who have never done so?

Just wondering...

Odd that both documentation and board members' experiences say it isn't so...

Cheers!

Dallara

I put on the Ztechnic more than 10,000 miles ago. lost 24 lbs of cat and beemer exhaust and it sounds better and looks better. Quality product.

no ofense to anyone on the board BUT ,we ride beemers ,they are known to cost a little more than the asian brands so when we modify our better than average bikes i dont want to pull a tip that i buy on the shelf at pepboys and stick it on the end of my pipe that i just sawzalled off . i would rather spend the coin and get the same tech advanced equipment that my bike was made with .i wonder why they dont just add the tip in the boxer cup or any profesional racing sport im feel'en ya dallara

And up next...

Just got the used Laser HotCam system I bought off e-Bay all polished up, looking better than Laser pictures a new one on their website! Man, oh man, does it look trick... with big header pipes and all those joints held together with springs like our race exhausts used to be... And that lovely, light (and I mean *LIGHT*!) titanium can...

Here's what it looked like on the guy's bike I bought it from (he sent me these pictures prior to the sale...):









As you can see it has the normal heat discoloration associated with stainless steel header pipes, and it was on the guy's bike for 9,000 miles.

These next pics are of the system, in my garage, all polished up. The pics are not the best, but I think they show the difference. As soon as the new exhaust gaskets get here I am going to mount the rig up and play with it some... You lose the centerstand mounting it, and they say it can't be used with system cases (because it mounts too high and at the wrong angle, not because of heat...), so it wil have to come back off for the Big Bend ride in October, but the Laser exhaust on the bike for a bit will give me a chance to polish up my BMW header pipes and to polish out the fuel stains on my Staintune cat-eliminator (from when my fuel clamps leaked, damn it!) before the Big Bend ride!







No doubt the Laser rig will eventually discolor again, but that's what gives stainless headers their *character*, anyway...

I can't wait to give it a try, and I will post pics once it is mounted up, rockin' and rollin'...

I'll bet it is going to play a hell of a tune!

Cheers!

Dallara