We went to our local dealer today to see what 2011 bikes they have and to watch a local couples slide show on their ride to Alaska and back. While there I asked what does the new 2011 R1200R do better then the 1150R and the differences between them. I'm not saying I didn't already know the answers to my questions, I wanted to hear the dealer perspective. The answers were pretty standard, the 1150R is an inferior machine and the 1200R is sliced bread. It gets better... so I fired back at least BMW has given us better crown gears and bearings this time around. The answer I got was they ( the dealer) have never had or heard of a FD failure in an 1150. I smiled, nodded and replied well good for you!
John
FD Failure and our dealer
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towerworker
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Re: FD Failure and our dealer
Either he's lying or they have never sold an 1150! (doubtful)
I heard the same once from my dealer. Interestingly enough, they are no longer in business.
Wayne
I heard the same once from my dealer. Interestingly enough, they are no longer in business.
Wayne
The Older I Get, The Less I know. (in honor of MikeCam
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chibbert
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Re: FD Failure and our dealer
Dammit, just when I forget about FD failures, someone has to remind me. 
2004 R1150RS
Re: FD Failure and our dealer
Or they have never successfully repaired one and vowed never to speak of it again! Either way, I have been around salesman all my life and love to screw with them. I was having fun and was really hoping to get a few more ( salesman) to jump in, but that will have to wait until next time... when I ask about ABS failurestowerworker wrote:Either he's lying or they have never sold an 1150! (doubtful)
I heard the same once from my dealer. Interestingly enough, they are no longer in business.
Wayne
I'm waiting to see the 2011 R1200R classic in person, looks nice and can't wait to test ride one! Really disappointed that BMW is not attending the IMS event in Cleveland next week, we are going out to spend the day Saturday and was hoping to catch a glimpse of the new models. Anyone else going?
John
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Art Elting
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Re: FD Failure and our dealer
It's really a shame that some folks have nothing better to do than stop in to a motorcycle store, bait the dealer and then badmouth him on a public forum. I did not say his or anyone's R1150R is "inferior" to an R1200R. I spoke to the improvements between the two and also suggested the new 2012 with dual OHC would really be super in lower mantenance and power delivery. If by extolling the virtues of the next generation of bike, I am inferring that the older generation is "inferior", so be it. BMW is not in the business of making succeeding generations of bikes worse than the previous models.
I did not say that I had never "heard of FD failures on R1150's" but rather had not seen any on R1150R's that we had sold or brought to our shop. I offered to go back to the service department with him and ask the question of our service manager. I also checked 5 years of warranty service records and found no claims for R1150R FD failures. Have we had FD failures on other R1150's (RT's, GS's)?
Yes, but as usual, no where near the rate that the Infamous Internet forums expound on.
We're really looking forward to the next visit so you can "screw with us" some more. We'll have our ABS failure books open for your review and give you time on our computer to bad mouth us on a public forum.
I did not say that I had never "heard of FD failures on R1150's" but rather had not seen any on R1150R's that we had sold or brought to our shop. I offered to go back to the service department with him and ask the question of our service manager. I also checked 5 years of warranty service records and found no claims for R1150R FD failures. Have we had FD failures on other R1150's (RT's, GS's)?
Yes, but as usual, no where near the rate that the Infamous Internet forums expound on.
We're really looking forward to the next visit so you can "screw with us" some more. We'll have our ABS failure books open for your review and give you time on our computer to bad mouth us on a public forum.
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iowabeakster
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Re: FD Failure and our dealer
Hi there dealership guy,
Welcome to the board. I hope you might check in here, now and again. It would really be nice to have a dealer's perspective and insight on some topics.
I feel bad for the dealerships out there. I've seen my own local BMW dealership getting criticized on the web, and most of time, I think it is just the customer simply being crazy in their expectations. I can't speak about any other dealerships (like yours), as I've never done business with them. But, I really feel like my dealership has been pretty decent and reasonable. I've got my own little business, and seen enough criticism of me and wife (and/or employees) "out there". So, when I see criticism (like above), I think about it from the dealers perspective.
I would also be talking about the improvements on the new bikes, that I had sitting in my showroom. I certainly wouldn't be helping to sell used bikes on Craigslist by spouting sales pitches for discontinued models.
I'm sure many people (like myself) who read the above posting, skip past it without a second thought.
I also would not talk about the problems with BMWs to potential customers (even older models)... when it would better serve my business to talk about the strengths. Of course there are always problems... I would be honest... I just wouldn't include them in my sales pitch.
grain of salt...best of luck.
Welcome to the board. I hope you might check in here, now and again. It would really be nice to have a dealer's perspective and insight on some topics.
I feel bad for the dealerships out there. I've seen my own local BMW dealership getting criticized on the web, and most of time, I think it is just the customer simply being crazy in their expectations. I can't speak about any other dealerships (like yours), as I've never done business with them. But, I really feel like my dealership has been pretty decent and reasonable. I've got my own little business, and seen enough criticism of me and wife (and/or employees) "out there". So, when I see criticism (like above), I think about it from the dealers perspective.
I would also be talking about the improvements on the new bikes, that I had sitting in my showroom. I certainly wouldn't be helping to sell used bikes on Craigslist by spouting sales pitches for discontinued models.
I'm sure many people (like myself) who read the above posting, skip past it without a second thought.I also would not talk about the problems with BMWs to potential customers (even older models)... when it would better serve my business to talk about the strengths. Of course there are always problems... I would be honest... I just wouldn't include them in my sales pitch.
grain of salt...best of luck.
I was dreaming when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray...
Re: FD Failure and our dealer
Art,
Point taken,
After a conversation with a few other owners and fellow inmates my second response was a rather heated response to a non-issue, taken more out of context here on the forum then the conversation we were having off line about the common threads of the 1150, so in retro I even asked my self where did that come from? It's way too easy to bad mouth over the Internet and I for one should know better, so your rebuttal is correct in part and I apologize for the hazing on my second post. My first post which came from a previous and similar conversation with other 1150 owners was one more of paraphrasing and generalization, with the FD issue being a touchy subject amongst 1150 owners. Maybe not politically correct but my version none the less.
Yes the new R1200R is an improved bike in many ways, which like you pointed out is why they made it and the one bike that may make many owners trade up ( myself included) and attract new owners from other brands. But I have to say my sticking point of the FD failures while as you pointed are a low overall percentage of the bikes sold world wide, but they seem to have a rather dispositional failure rate in NA. Or it is it the US market is sensitive to this issue, either way I have experienced all typical issues of the 1150 but the FD and take the brands representation of the issue to be one of numbers and not owners hence a certain amount of animosity. Like many BMW owners, I tend to be passionate about whatever it is that makes us ride these bikes, so my gut response tends to be very outward. The amount of standard issues that come with the 1150 (all not just the R) is common among all the owners I have spoken with over the past few years. Do they bring the bike to the dealer for repairs? I like many have taken to changing the fluid and checking the crown play with reverence, so is it the abused or neglected bikes that have an issue? not from what I have been able to find via the Internet. This all makes for more aware owners, but those that have experienced failures and the repairs that follow are no doubt very upset and vocal on the matter. I have had one bad FD unit to inspect here, and there wasn't much wrong with it other then bearing flaking which caused the abnormal wear, but once I asked about if anyone had seen this issue, I had more then I wanted to hear. If the dealerships are not seeing FD issues in the shop, then where are these failures being addressed? I have had pivot bearing failure, wire harness failures causing ignition cutout, stick coils failures at < 25K miles and the only thing not on the list for me personally is the FD failure, so yeah I'm a little skeptical when a dealer tells me that they have never had a FD in the shop. I'm not implying anything, just that given all the other issues we live on these bikes I find it hard to believe that a salesman's first response was we haven't seen one in the shop, hence my reply " good for you"
"Screw with" Yep, my choice of words, and poor choice given a public forum, but I really didn't see the same way and I'm entitled to have an outward moment every once and a while. But a bad response none the less.
I have repaired at least 3 ABS issues here and referred others to the dealer! Actually the local dealer helped me repair one ABS failure on an 1100R that they sold and spent its first years being maintained by them, I needed to reset the VIN in the computer after a hydro unit replacement, which took some time to figure-out and the guys in the shop did a great job and ended up getting it straighten out by forcing the VIN, something I couldn't have done here.
Having a good shop with good people is a good thing in an area this large, one of the reasons we support the dealer by word of month, print and our patronage. That doesn't mean I cannot be critical from time to time ( political correctness aside). Its no secret that there is quite a large number of riders in this area that do not share my view of the local dealer and I hear what they have to say and just try to understand why they feel this way. I was in this type of business for over 25 years, and tried my best to have a thick skin when it comes to owners and their vehicles, people often lose sight of that fact its an imperfect machine built by imperfect people for imperfect people. I've had to deal with every conceivable type personality during that time, but the training always comes back and says the customer is always right, words hated by better people than I, but history as proven that out more times then not. But given your closing statement, I may rethink my view.
John
Point taken,
After a conversation with a few other owners and fellow inmates my second response was a rather heated response to a non-issue, taken more out of context here on the forum then the conversation we were having off line about the common threads of the 1150, so in retro I even asked my self where did that come from? It's way too easy to bad mouth over the Internet and I for one should know better, so your rebuttal is correct in part and I apologize for the hazing on my second post. My first post which came from a previous and similar conversation with other 1150 owners was one more of paraphrasing and generalization, with the FD issue being a touchy subject amongst 1150 owners. Maybe not politically correct but my version none the less.
Yes the new R1200R is an improved bike in many ways, which like you pointed out is why they made it and the one bike that may make many owners trade up ( myself included) and attract new owners from other brands. But I have to say my sticking point of the FD failures while as you pointed are a low overall percentage of the bikes sold world wide, but they seem to have a rather dispositional failure rate in NA. Or it is it the US market is sensitive to this issue, either way I have experienced all typical issues of the 1150 but the FD and take the brands representation of the issue to be one of numbers and not owners hence a certain amount of animosity. Like many BMW owners, I tend to be passionate about whatever it is that makes us ride these bikes, so my gut response tends to be very outward. The amount of standard issues that come with the 1150 (all not just the R) is common among all the owners I have spoken with over the past few years. Do they bring the bike to the dealer for repairs? I like many have taken to changing the fluid and checking the crown play with reverence, so is it the abused or neglected bikes that have an issue? not from what I have been able to find via the Internet. This all makes for more aware owners, but those that have experienced failures and the repairs that follow are no doubt very upset and vocal on the matter. I have had one bad FD unit to inspect here, and there wasn't much wrong with it other then bearing flaking which caused the abnormal wear, but once I asked about if anyone had seen this issue, I had more then I wanted to hear. If the dealerships are not seeing FD issues in the shop, then where are these failures being addressed? I have had pivot bearing failure, wire harness failures causing ignition cutout, stick coils failures at < 25K miles and the only thing not on the list for me personally is the FD failure, so yeah I'm a little skeptical when a dealer tells me that they have never had a FD in the shop. I'm not implying anything, just that given all the other issues we live on these bikes I find it hard to believe that a salesman's first response was we haven't seen one in the shop, hence my reply " good for you"
"Screw with" Yep, my choice of words, and poor choice given a public forum, but I really didn't see the same way and I'm entitled to have an outward moment every once and a while. But a bad response none the less.
I have repaired at least 3 ABS issues here and referred others to the dealer! Actually the local dealer helped me repair one ABS failure on an 1100R that they sold and spent its first years being maintained by them, I needed to reset the VIN in the computer after a hydro unit replacement, which took some time to figure-out and the guys in the shop did a great job and ended up getting it straighten out by forcing the VIN, something I couldn't have done here.
Having a good shop with good people is a good thing in an area this large, one of the reasons we support the dealer by word of month, print and our patronage. That doesn't mean I cannot be critical from time to time ( political correctness aside). Its no secret that there is quite a large number of riders in this area that do not share my view of the local dealer and I hear what they have to say and just try to understand why they feel this way. I was in this type of business for over 25 years, and tried my best to have a thick skin when it comes to owners and their vehicles, people often lose sight of that fact its an imperfect machine built by imperfect people for imperfect people. I've had to deal with every conceivable type personality during that time, but the training always comes back and says the customer is always right, words hated by better people than I, but history as proven that out more times then not. But given your closing statement, I may rethink my view.
John
Re: FD Failure and our dealer
When it comes to the BMW dealerships, I will be the last one in line to defend them! BUT… We all have to realize that it takes about One million dollars or more per year to keep the BMW dealership open. And this $$$ needs to come from somewhere. BMW dealership is not a “CLUB”, it is a place of business. If we are going to judge them, let’s not mix personalities of the sales people or the mechanics with the service we are getting. It comes naturally to complain about BAD experiences at the dealership, but nobody is mentioning “GOOD” experience and good service we are getting, not to mention immediate availability of the parts we need “yesterday”. I am lucky enough to have two BMW dealerships in the area. Both owners are very nice guys with the very nice group of people who work for them. But, when it comes to "doing business", I have no friends and no relatives, and I never let my emotions get in the way. The job of the sales person is to sell the bike, to sell the service, to sell the dealership. The owner’s job is to keep the door “OPEN” and make sure everybody gets paid at the end of the week, and hopefully the customers will come back. Not an easy task. I am the one who was accused on this board for not supporting my local dealer. Yes, I don’t support them. The money I have spent at the local stores in the last 30 years, is very miniscule, bolts and nuts, and crash washers. But I am thankful that both stores are still there. I come to the store just to look around. If mechanics have some time, I will chit-chat with them, for MY benefit only, but I don’t need to buy a hat or some junk, because I feel sorry for the guy. This board is about “OPINIONS”&“EXPERIENCES” and “BMW BROTHERHOOD”. Also I would like to add: “DEALERS ARE VERY WELCOME.” They can learn something from this board that will help them to run a more successful business, and we all can benefit by listening to them and learn something too. We forgot how to listen and learn, and benefit from the experiences of others. I just HOPE we will not start a WAR on this board and only HELP each other. I grew up in the world where we paid "double" the suggested retail price for the stinky URAL and it was hard to find it too. So, we all should be GRATEFUL that we can get our bikes without staying in line for them for 5 years, find the parts and ask for the discount from the local dealer. 
We all don't know what we have until we lose it!!! 
Good Luck to all of us!!!
We all don't know what we have until we lose it!!! Good Luck to all of us!!!
Lifetime Member #586
2002 R1150R
2004 R1150 ABS
2003 F650 CSA
PRESSING "1" FOR ENGLISH!
2002 R1150R
2004 R1150 ABS
2003 F650 CSA
PRESSING "1" FOR ENGLISH!
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Daryl_stamp
- Lifer
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Re: FD Failure and our dealer
Hey John; Hey Art; how about joining us @ the next Beakster Bash in Milford PA?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21312
Close enough for a single overnight if you choose; but once you meet everyone you'll want to stay.
Small, low-key, informal.
We all like BMW motorcycles, we all like to ride, and we're all trying to make a living selling something (work skills, time, motorcycles etc.). We don't always appreciate what the other is selling, but we're all pretty much the same, we just go about it differently.......
We'll have to ride separately though; one of you won't be keen on the stickers plastered all over my bike and the other rides too slow (or so I've been led to believe); but ultimately it would be useful & informative for everyone.
FWIW; the first salesman I met there was very forthright; ..... when I asked him about his high mileage bike (300,000+ airhead something) he said "Most modern bikes are very well made & can get very high mileage compared to the old days; but don't kid yourself....none of them are perfect." I genuinely appreciated his candor and later came to realize that BMW's are not bullet proof, never fail machines, ...... but I still can't imagine riding anything else.
Hope to see you both tonight at the club banquet; just don't want either of you to poke me in the eye.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21312
Close enough for a single overnight if you choose; but once you meet everyone you'll want to stay.
Small, low-key, informal.
We all like BMW motorcycles, we all like to ride, and we're all trying to make a living selling something (work skills, time, motorcycles etc.). We don't always appreciate what the other is selling, but we're all pretty much the same, we just go about it differently.......
We'll have to ride separately though; one of you won't be keen on the stickers plastered all over my bike and the other rides too slow (or so I've been led to believe); but ultimately it would be useful & informative for everyone.
FWIW; the first salesman I met there was very forthright; ..... when I asked him about his high mileage bike (300,000+ airhead something) he said "Most modern bikes are very well made & can get very high mileage compared to the old days; but don't kid yourself....none of them are perfect." I genuinely appreciated his candor and later came to realize that BMW's are not bullet proof, never fail machines, ...... but I still can't imagine riding anything else.
Hope to see you both tonight at the club banquet; just don't want either of you to poke me in the eye.