BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Just a quick note that might be interesting or useful to the group.

I purchased my 2007 R12R used with about 21K miles. Two things I noticed right away, the seat was a little loose when mounted, and the hand-grips were sticky and looked like they were beginning to deteriorate. Life is busy, and I decided to deal with these problems when I could.

When I had a chance to inspect the seat, I found most of the rubber grommets were dry-rotted. I ordered a new set, and in the process of replacing them, I noticed that the left grommet over the hole in the pan that slides over the metal pin in front of the seat was missing. The pan had a large ragged hole in it where some of the material had broken off, taking the grommet with it. The seat pan had also rubbed a noticeable groove in the left trim panel. I hope that this description makes sense. And, is it me, or is the seat pan material brittle?

Anyway, when I took my bike in at about 23.5K miles (and a week or less from the end of the factory warranty) for the 24K mile service, I pointed out the seat, trim panel, and hand grips to the service rep. She made a few queries while my bike was at the shop. In the end, they replaced the seat, the trim panel, and the grips under warranty. To my chagrin, it just never occurred to me to ask earlier.

The new grips look great and feel much better. The new seat is stiff as hell, and I can’t flat foot at stops anymore unless my legs are against the bike, but it does no wiggle.

All the best to the group.

David

Good service is great isn't it ! More dealers need to take a lesson just a little good will goes a long way

Nice to hear a happy ending! Thanks for sharing your experience...

Peter

I'm glad you had a good warranty experience. My one experience with a warranty issue wasn't so pleasant. In a nutshell, I got stranded three times, and the dealer told me that they couldn't find anything wrong. I told them that I couldn't trust the bike (I had just bought it and put maybe 500-1k miles on it) and I wanted something done. Their reply was just to ride it and let them know if my problems persisted. In the end, I had gotten a bad battery from the factory. Even after asking them to replace it, they wouldn't because it tested "good".

R12RnHouston wrote:...I ordered a new set, and in the process of replacing them, I noticed that the left grommet over the hole in the pan that slides over the metal pin in front of the seat was missing.

Anyway, since you ordered a seat and they warrantied the seat, does that mean you have an extra one laying around? I've haven't had much luck replacing my low seat with a standard seat yet.

I had a pleasant warranty experience today - Cross Country BMW in Metuchen NJ (give credit where credit is due..)

My bike has always had a slightly odd feel to the front brake lever. First pull always came back closer to the grip than subsequent pulls. This was true if the bike was moving, stationary, whatever. It was very repeatable - just took about 30 seconds between strokes to make it go in further first time.

Really mostly an annoyance as long as I didn't have fingers still on the grip (which have foam covers - making them larger in OD) - if I did have fingers on the grip - one would get pinched between the lever and grip on the first pull. I could avoid this by moving the adjustment so the lever was out further, but I have short stubby fingers - so that wasn't a good solution. I tried bleeding/flushing the system several times - and no lasting change (would feel better for about 5-10 minutes - then back to the same behavior.)

Finally - since the warranty is getting close to done (it's a race between time/miles.. I have about 2.5k miles left on it - and about 3.5 months).. figured I'd ask the remaining dealer in NJ about it. Joe - the service writer thought front master cylinder, and asked that I bring it in so they could check it. Did that last weekend (hey - it was WARM - 42F! And it's only 100 mile round trip - scenic route..) Joe ordered a new master cylinder and thought it would be in on Weds. Yesterday he called to say it was in, and offered to have it replaced today (Saturday) while I waited.

Once the temps got above freezing (35F - temperature kept blinking at me..) I headed up. Replacement took a bit over an hour. I went to the next-door Honda showroom service lounge where an employee put on "On-Any-Sunday" (great movie - the one that started me riding a very long time ago..) About an hour later the service manager came looking for me "Bike's done - feels good!" And handed me the no-charge bill.

Bike felt great - the brake felt like I hoped it would. It felt good 2 hours later when I finally wandered home (longer scenic route - it had gotten up to 37F and the temp wasn't blinking anymore..) I'm a happy camper, especially considering I hadn't bought the bike from this dealer (but will certainly consider new bikes from them.) Great experience. Have to write a few letters.. I think it's good if once in a while BMW also hears about dealers who HAVE made customers happy.. it encourages BMW, and encourages the dealer, and hopefully rewards the helpful employees.

The only experience with warranty I had so far was right after I bought the bike used and realized some leaking seals. The issue got repaired at no cost, so far satisfactorily. I went there with the idea it was a transmission seal, was told it can't be, they've seen it many times, then, when they had the bike open, "we need to order more seals for the transmission".

I have since talked to other service managers regarding other questions. As in other areas of life, there is quite a difference in tone and quality. It is very much like going to the doctor. Some listen and take you serious while others have very high opinions of themselves. The latter are not factors in the equation of getting it right. So, shop around if you can.

Hi, Chris,

I ordered a new “set” of grommets for the old seat. They are devilishly hard to put in!

Don,

Very glad to hear you had a pleasant experience also! Two things you mentioned occurred to me too. I need to write the dealer owner and BMW USA a letter. I also felt a strong sense of loyalty to the dealer following such a good experience.

David

deilenberger wrote:
My bike has always had a slightly odd feel to the front brake lever. First pull always came back closer to the grip than subsequent pulls. This was true if the bike was moving, stationary, whatever. It was very repeatable - just took about 30 seconds between strokes to make it go in further first time.

Mine does this same thing!...
After they fixed it, did they tell you what the issue was with your original master cylinder?

Thank you,
Brad

TT RDHS wrote:

deilenberger wrote:
My bike has always had a slightly odd feel to the front brake lever. First pull always came back closer to the grip than subsequent pulls. This was true if the bike was moving, stationary, whatever. It was very repeatable - just took about 30 seconds between strokes to make it go in further first time.

Mine does this same thing!...
After they fixed it, did they tell you what the issue was with your original master cylinder?

Thank you,
Brad

On the service order is written:

"Front brake master cylinder will not hold pressure. Piston seal failed causing internal leak."

Dunno if that is simply warranty talk or a real diagnosis. I doubt if they disassembled the master cylinder. If you're under warranty - push to get it replaced. (Wonder if this was a particular group of bikes - what was your production date? Mine was 10/06. VIN ZS25482 [last 7 digits is what BMW uses for internal production tracking/parts ordering.])

They replaced 32727696052 - 1 Handbrake Lever Unit with CE.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=10&hl=15

It's the entire unit including the lever, reservoir, etc. $438.00

Just checked it in the garage - it still feels GOOD!

Thanks for the info!!
My RR was made 01/08 (it's an '08 model)

TT RDHS wrote:Mine does this same thing!...

+1 to Brad and Don. The first pull on the front brake is always a bit soft. Only occasionally does it actually seem to have the full pressure. Bike still stops on a dime, but it just feels 'spongy'. I inquired about it at the 20k service thinking it needed bleeding. after the bleed, same thing. Perhaps a new master cylinder is in order. It's an '08

LumpyCam wrote:

TT RDHS wrote:Mine does this same thing!...

+1 to Brad and Don. The first pull on the front brake is always a bit soft. Only occasionally does it actually seem to have the full pressure. Bike still stops on a dime, but it just feels 'spongy'. I inquired about it at the 20k service thinking it needed bleeding. after the bleed, same thing. Perhaps a new master cylinder is in order. It's an '08

I'll modify what I said before - it seems to be much the same after 24 hours.. can't figure out why, but I have a guess what's happening.

I did bleed ALL the brake circuits again, hoping it was just some air trapped someplace in the system. I even managed to figure out how to trigger the front to rear linking using the ABS.. and bled that circuit. To trigger this - bike on centerstand, rear wheel off the ground. Bike off - no linking happens. If you pull the front lever the rear wheel still turns freely. But... if you turn on the ignition AND even slightly turn the rear wheel, you'll feel a buzz in the front lever, and hear a buzz from the ABS unit, and the rear wheel brake will activate (This is the first time I heard of this - so you heard it here first..) and you can get fluid out of the rear brake bleeder using the front lever.

Anyway - after ALL that - it still feels about the same as it did before the new master cylinder.

OK - what I think is happening is piston retraction in the calipers. I haven't had these calipers apart (obviously) - but most brake calipers use a special square profile seal on them. The seal does two things. As the brakes pads wear - it keeps the pistons from retracting so the lever travel doesn't increase. It also very slightly pulls the pistons back into the caliper bore so the pads aren't being pressed against the rotors. It does this with the square shape (distorting slightly when the piston moves.) I've also seen designs (older ones) that used normal round profile seals, and used a dust-cover to slightly retract the pistons.

I'm guessing we have the square profile seals.. and what is happening is when you first use the brake, the piston moves out as far as it can to contact the back of the pad and press them against the rotors. When pressure is released - the piston slowly moves back just a tiny bit (due to the seal) meaning if you wait 30-60 seconds between applications of the brake, the movement is more, but if you quickly pump the brake, the pistons don't have time to move back.

SO - mebbe - they ALL do that.

Some references:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake04.pdf - see page 38.

http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/hayesu_product1.shtml - Section B.

"B. Retraction – The action of the brake pads being physically pulled away from the rotor. Typically hydraulic calipers use a rubber seal (square seal) that deforms when the brake is applied, and then returns to its normal shape and pulls the pads away from the rotor when pressure is released."

deilenberger wrote:OK - what I think is happening is piston retraction in the calipers.

That makes logical sense. Also explains why my dealer said they are normal.

According to Helge Pedersen in the Globerider R1200GS touring video, brakes should not be bled (this advice is for R1200GS owners, but maybe us too?) by anyone but a BMW repair facility with 'computers', except in a field emergency situation .

Take it with a grain of salt, he also says things like 'I don't understand anything about CANBUS', and he uses a pink 10 year old bike cover.

Seems like something you would not overlook, Don, but you never know - maybe you need 'a computer' to do it properly?

Peter

Mollygrubber wrote:According to Helge Pedersen in the Globerider R1200GS touring video, brakes should not be bled (this advice is for R1200GS owners, but maybe us too?) by anyone but a BMW repair facility with 'computers', except in a field emergency situation .

Take it with a grain of salt, he also says things like 'I don't understand anything about CANBUS', and he uses a pink 10 year old bike cover.

That isn't the only thing Helge has said wrong.. And he is wrong in this case. The BMW dealer never hooked it up to the computer, my seat was never off the bike while it was being worked on.

Seems like something you would not overlook, Don, but you never know - maybe you need 'a computer' to do it properly?

On some more complex car systems a computer is used to activate the ABS so fluid is replaced in the pistons in the ABS modulator. Ours isn't the same design and a simple flush should replace all the fluid in the system. There is nothing on the BMW-TIS indicating the computer be used for anything except reading ABS fault codes (which I can do equally well with the GS-911, but I've never had any stored codes.)

Peter

As far as advice from Helge, someone who doesn't know anything about CanBus and doesn't understand it IS likely to believe whatever some tech tells him without the ability to critique the advice he receives. He should stick to touring advice.

And a pink bike cover - that's just tacky.

Well, to be fair to Helge, it used to be red. But c'mon man - 10 years!?! Unlock the wallet and get a new one!

Did you two have a falling out over woman in the past?