Red Light Woes

[GypsyRR]

Yesterday evening on a short ride in the area, there were three different intersections where I sat on my bike alone at a red light in a turning lane waiting through 2-3 cycles for the light to turn to a green arrow so I could get on my way. Each time, I eventually had to leave the turn lane and go straight instead since that was the only lane that had a green light. I eventually had to choose a route home that did not leave me stranded in turning lanes waiting for a green arrow. I've never had trouble like this before and I've been riding in the area for 3.5 years. What's the deal with that? What options are out there that can successfully trip a green light for a motorcycle?

[touchton]

I run into that issue as well. In Tennessee it's perfectly legal for a motorcycle operator to proceed through a red light when the path is clear. I do that quite often even for traffic signals that the motorcycle does trigger. There are other intersections where it's never clear and running the red light is not an option. In those situations I'll make a right turn then make a 'U' turn as soon as I can.

There are things you can purchase that claim to help trigger a traffic signal. They don't work. Most are magnets and in theory they may work but they don't create enough change in the magnetic field to trigger the light. What you need is a whole lot more metal close to the road and that's not a reasonable solution. Ironically, I have a Vespa that I ride on local trips. It doesn't have a problem triggering traffic signals. But, it does have a large metal frame that's close to the ground.

[iowabeakster]

what Touchton said...free yourself from the bondage of the traffic light...

Back in the day, when my town used to have triggers like those, I would get accustomed to treating red lights like they were stop signs. My bike riding habits carried over into my car driving habits. I was giving a ride home to a co-worker and he said, "I didn't want to say anything because you were really quite careful about everything...but that was the third red light you have run today."

[MikeCam]

Treat 'em like a stop sign. Be polite to the ticketing officer. Helps to quote the state code for malfunctioning traffic control devices (which usually sez 'treat 'em like a stop sign.' Throw your self on the mercy of the court. If you go to prison I'll send you two pair of socks and one pair of clean underwear.

[Boxer]

Try to position yourself behind a car....Or pull WAY up so a car behind you can come up close to trigger it. I've had to use both those techniques before, and I'm never sure if it worked or not, but the light eventually has turned. Once or twice I have encountered your situation and I just think like a Tenneseean and run the damn thing after 2 cyles.

[GypsyRR]

...... In Tennessee it's perfectly legal for a motorcycle operator to proceed through a red light when the path is clear. ............. There are other intersections where it's never clear and running the red light is not an option. In those situations I'll make a right turn then make a 'U' turn as soon as I can..........

what Touchton said...free yourself from the bondage of the traffic light.......

Treat 'em like a stop sign. Be polite to the ticketing officer. ...................... If you go to prison I'll send you two pair of socks and one pair of clean underwear.

Try to position yourself behind a car....Or pull WAY up so a car behind you can come up close to trigger it. .................. just think like a Tenneseean and run the damn thing.

Thanks for your responses, guys.

Boxer, I've followed your suggestions and it does work..........

However, this particular night, no one was going where I was going, and no one was following either. In fact, although no one was going where I was going, there were still several cars at the intersections each time and so someone always had a green light and someone was always traveling through the intersection. It never cleared enough for me to safely proceed in turning, so I ended up ultimately doing what Touchton suggested - making a U-turn.


So, in summary, my choices are:

1. Move to Tennessee,
2. Change my route,
3. Become a follower,
4. Break the law and live out my days in a Texas prison donning socks and underwear chosen by MikeCam.

I can see only one option that has clear advantages.

[touchton]

So, in summary, my choices are:

1. Move to Tennessee,
2. Change my route,
3. Become a follower,
4. Break the law and live out my days in a Texas prison donning socks and underwear chosen by MikeCam.

I can see only one option that has clear advantages.

As to number 1, we no longer allow Texans to move to this state.

Seriously, Texas should have a law allowing you to proceed through a traffic signal if you vehicle does not trip the sensor.

[taosports]

Here in California, Caltrans recently approved a new directive calling for all new or updated traffic control devices to properly detect bicycles and motorcycles. The directive becomes effective on Sept. 10th and is in response to Assembly Bill 1581 that was approved by the legislature and signed into law on Oct. 8, 2007 (a little delay there - but better late than never). In addition to specifying the proper detection of bikes/motorcycles, the directive also requires that the minimum green cycle time should be based on a cyclist crossing speed of 10 mph after a 6 second delay to initially respond to the green and begin accelerating.

It only applies however to new installations or ones that undergo some upgrade. (But local communities appear to be quite responsive in adjusting the sensitivity of detectors when it's brought to their attention that bicycles and motorcycles are not being detected.)

[iowabeakster]

Iowa City has changed all triggers to the type of motion sensors mounted above the intersections on the signal lights. Not only do work much better for us motorcycle riders, but they are much (MUCH!) cheaper. They no longer need to cut a block of concrete out of the roadway to put the sensor underneath the concrete. Not only is the initial installation easier, replacing the sensor is also much easier. The job basically becomes about as hard as changing a light bulb. Save your community money (and maintenance aggravation) and request the local authorities to change the type of triggers where you live.

And while your at it request all stoplights be changed to LED's too (saves lots of electricity, 240V lights that are on 24 hours a day). I read an article about Cedar Rapids' change over to LED lights a few years ago. Cedar Rapids is not that big (100K+ people) but the money saved in electricity and light bulbs paid for the LED's quickly...and saves a ton of electricity...for big savings over time.

[bobw]

NC just added a section for motorcycles being allowed to proceed on red when it won't cycle to green. At times I have set my side stand down on the trigger wires that you can see in the pavement and this works (?) for the older systems in our town. I would wait for the light to cycle one time and then proceed as if it's an electronic stop sign (I'd be willing to "tell it to the judge", too).

[wncbmw]

bobw beat me too it. NC has a similar law to the Tennessee version, only we are required to wait a certain amount of time. I can't remember what it is but if the light cycles and obviously ignores me, I proceed through it carefully. And plan to follow Mike's advice. 'Yes officer, I sat there for 5 minutes!' Unless he was sitting there, he has no idea how long you waited!

[GypsyRR]

As far as I know, Texas does not have that same law. We do have this law though:

...the detector for a traffic-actuated electric traffic-control device must be capable of registering the presence of a motorcycle.

That's it.

[Airman]

As far as I know, Texas does not have that same law. We do have this law though:

...the detector for a traffic-actuated electric traffic-control device must be capable of registering the presence of a motorcycle.

That's it.

I'm not sure how the law reads in WA, but generally the detectors work pretty well. In the event that they don't I lean towards (carefully) running the light and explaining the problem to the LEO if I get stopped. Our detectors are big circles cut in the pavement that I suspect contain some sort of mass detector. Back in the old days, living in KS, I regularlly ran the lights as NONE of them would trip for a motorcycle. Having discussed this with other riders, I find none who have been ticketed for this, but it could well be because you're alone out there with no one to help you trip the light, and probably no Cops either. In your case the law is on your side. I would drive through those malfunctioning lights every time.

[ebincia]

Many riders are often frustrated by traffic light sensors that fail to detect the presence of a motorcycle. TEAM OREGON instructor Patrick Fitzharris recently contacted Mark Rodgers, the manager of the Traffic Signal Services Unit of ODOT. Rodgers offered some insight into how vehicle sensors work and how riders can help themselves be more "sensor visible." Here is an excerpt of Rodger's response:


As a fellow motorcyclist, I understand the frustration of not getting detected by the traffic signal when I am riding my bike. Please allow me this short lesson to show how a traffic signal senses motor vehicles. Hopefully you can better exploit the sensors by understanding how they work.

A vehicle sensor, typically referred to as a "loop", is simply a coil of
wire embedded into the road surface. An electronic module in the traffic signal control cabinet sends a signal to the loop, which causes it to behave as a metal detector. Any mass of metal that passes over the loop causes a shift in the electrical signal. When the shift is great enough, the module tells the computer that a vehicle is present. The key point here is that the mass of metal must be large enough to overcome a threshold, or minimum metal mass. All metal objects greater than the threshold will be detected.

One other factor of the loop is called geometry. Oregon uses one of two loop configurations, a round loop and a diamond shaped loop. Invisible lines of magnetic force form at right angles to the wire. Maximum sensitivity results from metal masses moving perpendicular to the lines of force, so that as many lines are cut through as possible. In either type of loop, this zone lies about halfway between the center line of the loop and the left or right edge of the loop. If you stop over a loop, I recommend that you place your bike so that the lowest part of the frame is directly over the wire. Do not stop in the middle of the loop, as there is a dead zone in the middle.

Retrieved from: http://teamoregon.orst.edu/TO_Web/traffic_sensors.html September 23, 2009

[Sunbeemer]

Good info ebincia. The only way I can open the automatic gate at work is by stopping with my crankshaft directly over the right front corner of the sensor wire's rectangle.

[ebincia]

Good info ebincia. The only way I can open the automatic gate at work is by stopping with my crankshaft directly over the right front corner of the sensor wire's rectangle.

I've been using this system for years. It works well as long as the rider can see the loop. In the rain, at night, and other distractions can affect the reliability of this method.

[Ves]

Pull up next to one of the trigger lines, put your sidestand down as close to "on top of it" as you can. Flip it back up. Light should turn in no time. In the rare case where it doesn't, I don't wait more than one cycle.. proceed through the intersection when safe to do so...

[Biff's R]

I am waiting for this to happen in the town about a mile away with red light traffic cameras. The ticketing camera's loop will work to give you a ticket, but the loop to change the light will never work.

[Ves]

I say it's time for some civil disobedience... Pick a day in the near future... everyone picks one intersection a few miles from their house... take a bat or a shotgun... and exactly at 2:00 am... take out all the cameras... Who's with me... ?

[Doug]

This is quite irritating! I asked a NY policeman about this. He said that if the light doesn't change for you, and its safe to proceed, go ahead.