Shocks

[azimuth551]

I wanted to know if anybody has changed their shocks from stock to Wilbers Progressive shocks. My bike is horrible on a rough raod and you feel every little bump--especially where there are cracks in the road. I feel sometimes that I am riding off road its so bad. I have the rear shock diled down low for a softer ride and the rebound adjustment is set as per the manual for one rider. I am more of a sport touring rider, weigh about 180lbs and I do ride two up about 30% of the time. I would like to replace the front shock only at this time due to the expense of doing both. I would like to think that changing the front shock would make a huge improvement to the stifness of the front suspension. Has anybody noticed a big difference in the way the bike rides on a rough road surface after changing the shock? Are there any special considerations or recomendations that you may have on a proper set up or style of shock. Should I get one with all the adjustments or just a standard? Is there a particular place I should purchse the shock at? Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brent

[Mollygrubber]

Try the handy 'search' feature... aftermarket suspension has been discussed at great length here. Don't get Don started on adjustment advice, either... read his setup guide first!

[deilenberger]

Actually - Wilbers doesn't offer a "progressive" shock (assume by progressive - you're talking about the spring. The shock itself is not progressive, and I know of no motorcycle shocks that are..) HyperPro does offer shocks with either linear or progressive springs.

Do they help reduce the harshness? Well, being in the land (NJ) of huge-expansion-joint-humps, and pothole farms (we grow the potholes NYC installs and puts big metal plates over..) - Sure does. Helps a LOT.

Best results will be if you're not lowering the bikes suspension at the same time - but Klaus at HyperPro figured out designs for the R12R front and rear shock - lowered - that retains the factory suspension travel. We checked for clearance issues at full compression - and there are none. AFAIK - all the other "lower" shocks (including BMW's low suspension offering) loose travel, which will make the harshness worse.

Plan on replacing both. The front will help with front-end harshness, but there is more weight on the rear end, and if your current shock is bottoming out - it will feel harsh. You might try getting the front first and setting the correct sag (static and dynamic) on the rear shock, and playing with the single damping adjustment on it (which is only for rebound..) You might improve things that way.

You can find Klaus and Hyperpro at: http://www.epmperformance.com/

DISCLAIMER: Klaus is a good friend. He's also a good person to deal with and really works to make his customers happy. So take that for what it's worth.

[73516]

Just thought I'd toss my 2 cents in: at the OA rally I had installed a new set of Ohlins on my R12R, replacing the OEM with 24k miles. Let me tell you, the difference is beyond your wildess imagination. Little did I know how well this little bike will handle. It is a real treat to LEAN......into turn. The Ohlins are a little steep in USD, but hey, I got a couple of hats from them. Simply, worth the $.

jgp

[Mollygrubber]

mmmmmm.... Ohlins...

Now I need to start sweet talking the missus... sounds like we're going out to dinner!!

[Caroanbill]

Have had Wilbers (with "classic" black springs) since new - very satisfied. After 25,000km - much of it on badly surfaced country roads - I can't fault them. I run at the settings we worked on on delivery: dialed in by the dealer, and so far I've had no need to change them (I don't carry a pillion but do carry laden panniers, topcase and camping gear).

We can't get Ohlins for BMW in Australia - theoretically yes, in practice no. Pity - the importer (Steve Cramer) did a great job on an Ohlins for my old K1100LT. Have heard of Hyperpro here but never seem a BM with them, and no experience with the importer. Wilbers are easy to get (though quality of service from the importer is another thing altogether).

Anyhow - I mainly changed over to lose the harsh / choppy FRONT shock (experienced on test and confirmed by the salesman)

[mvk]

We can't get Ohlins for BMW in Australia - theoretically yes, in practice no. Pity -

Hi again Bill (see recent post under Australian riders).
I am sure Wilbers are fine but if anyone in Oz wants the yellow look Ohlins are also easy to get-and if exchange rate is good, not ridiculously overpriced - see link below (sorry can't work out how to post photos).

These shocks were proving their value very nicely five minutes before the photo was taken...


http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo ... directlink

[azimuth551]

Thanks for the input guys, I requested a quote from HyperPro last night, so well see what they come up with. I have heard good things about those shocks and they have all the adjustability I will need for my riding style. If anybody has gone with these shocks, I would like to hear any coments or advice you may have--thanks

Brent
2007 R1200R

[deilenberger]

If anybody has gone with these shocks, I would like to hear any coments or advice you may have--thanks

Ah.. you asked. http://www.eilenberger.net/Suspension/suspension.htm

[Caroanbill]

... if anyone in Oz wants the yellow look Ohlins are also easy to get-and if exchange rate is good, not ridiculously overpriced ...

Glad you could find them - when my R1200R was on order (winter 2007) the people at Cramer's told me Ohlins BMW supply to Oz was uncertains and there would be several months' wait at least (whereas the Wilbers arrived before the bike did, and Procycles Hornsby fitted and set them up gratis). Maybe Ohlins BMW supply has improved - good, because I want to upgrade my F650CS and Ohlins do both progressive fork springs and a replacement rear for it.

[Oaktown]

With the caveat that I am not knowledgeable about suspension, I'm simply going to parrot what a well-known expert in my area told me (Phil @ After Shocks). The OEM shocks on the R1200R are of reasonably good quality, but the front shock is not adjustable and is optimized for a 187 lbs. load. Since I'm 245 lbs. and always have my panniers on (25+ lbs. empty), it was simply impossible to get the rear adjusted properly and avoid having the bike pitch front to back. This is a very undesirable condition, as the steering geometry is constantly changing, making it impossible the hold a clean line. Please accept that this is just my personal opinion, but I would never put gold springs on my beautiful black bike, as that would be too much of a reminder of the putrid plethora of gold "spinners" I've seen far too often around town. Therefore, it was Wilbers for my bike; gorgeous black springs that hail from Germany and Phil assured me that the quality was comparable to Ohlins. On a point all agree, the difference is a revelation; I can steer with the footpegs, the suspension travels in a vertical fashion and it corners as if on a rail. Very pricey, but equally worth the investment.

John

[qfman]

I've got 20K on my '07 R and am finding the front shock is near dead. I rang around the various suspension experts in Sydney and was referred to Frank Pons at Biketek - 40 years of suspension experience. He does a lot of BMs and reckons the front shock is toast by around 30K. He rebuilds a lot of shocks but says the BM unit is not suitable for rebuild. He recommended putting an Ohlins on the front and leaving the stock on the rear. He placed an order for the Ohlins front shock (Part BM709) and will fit it and tune the rest of my set-up for $1200 (AUD).

He has no vested interest either way but did comment that Ohlins do a better job than the other after-market choices.

I guess I will know how much better in a couple of weeks.

Tom

[deilenberger]

Having at one time owned almost every brand of aftermarket shock - and having disassembled/serviced most of them - claiming that "Ohlins is best" is baloney.

Here is my "quality" opinion, from low to high:

BMW OE:
Barely adjustable, and generally with spreading waistlines - too little damping for the average rider. Built to a price point, not noted for lasting a long time. Decent when new - but the R12R setup has been found to be rather harsh (oversprung/underdamped) for many riders.

Good quality - better than OE:
Works Performance, Progressive. Both make decent rebuildable shocks. Works used different rate springs stacked up to achieve a progressive spring rate. Progressive uses a progressively wound spring (spring rate increases as the spring is compressed, ie - it gets harder as it gets shorter.) Both companies are advancing on design with more adjustments on their newer model shocks (which I have no experience with.) Both are made in the USA if that's important to you.

Better quality - you'll feel the difference:
Ohlins - the "gold" standard (helps that they're gold colored.) Only one set of damping adjustments, linear wound springs are standard. Getting it setup right can be a bit of a challenge, but once you do - you'll be quite happy with it. Some innovative engineering on their shocks (first hydraulic preload adjuster, seperate compression/rebound damping adjustments.) Made in the Netherlands.

Wilbers - good shock, IMHO crappy company (IMHO they screwed over my friend Klaus who developed their market in the US..) Build quality on the same level as Ohlins. The engineer who designed the Wilbers shocks (he's no longer there) grew on Ohlins designs, and incorporated high and low speed compression damping adjustments. Was offered with a 5 year warranty, which Klaus is still honoring on shocks he imported (at his own expense.) Only offers linear springs AFAIK. Made in Germany.

HyperPro - good shock, good company. Company was started by people from Wilbers who were unhappy with Wilbers, including the engineer who designed all the Wilbers shocks. Some improvements on the Wilbers/Ohlins design includes a larger shock rod with a nitride anti-stiction coating (longer life, less stiction) and the use of a bladder for the gas reservior instead of a floating piston (less stiction, no chance of it "leaking" down). Added more clicks to the adjustments, which is pretty much useless (44 vs 22 isn't really a difference since I always go 2 clicks in making adjustments on the Hyperpro - I can't feel 1 click in the suspension.) Good importer in the US (EPM Performance) and good warranty. Can get linear or progressive springs. Made in the Netherlands.

AFAIK, HyperPro is the only company that offers a "shorter" R12R shock setup that keeps the factory suspension travel. Not even BMW "low" suspension offers that. The reason they do is 'cause Klaus and I spent several long Saturdays designing a set of shocks that could do this and still lower the bike ~1". Typically on shortened suspension you give up some travel (and ride quality) to lower the bike. The R12R can be lowered without loosing the travel (there is clearance in the suspension components to the chassis..) Klaus knows how to do this - just ask him. It's what I have, and I'm quite happy with it.

Jury still out..

YSS - dunno yet, except what I've seen. Haven't used them yet. YSS is made in Asia, designed by the same engineer who designed Wilbers and HyperPro, and appears to be on the Wilbers level for quality and design (shaft size, bearing designs, etc..) I don't have enough personal experience with them, I've just seen the guts and finished shocks. Price point is considerably below all three biggies (Ohlins, Wilbers, HyperPro.) I'm supposed to help Klaus out with designing a setup for the R12R - but that probably won't happen until around November or so when riding and shock sales taper off a bit. Assembled in the US and imported to the US by EPM Performance (Klaus has tons of parts - all of which can be assembled in various configurations for different applications.. so he can custom make a shock for almost any bike IF he has all the requirements/dimensions/etc.) Some shocks come from the factory preassembled, many are custom assembled here in the US. I hope to have a better informed opinion when we (Klaus and I) get to setting up a pair for the R12R, since part of the setup will be me test riding and seeing how well they work.

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There are a few other shocks I haven't tried (Penske, Icon, etc.) - but they're not commonly available. A good part of the value of an aftermarket shock is getting it setup correctly -- and much of that is going to be who you buy it from. I've heard good things about Ted Porter (who sells Wilbers), but no first hand experience. After purchase support is also important - and for that EPM Performance has been excellent.

Disclaimer: Klaus is an old and valued friend. I sorta got him into the shock business. My opinions are my opinions and I have no hesitation recommending him to anyone.

[Bill Stevenson]

Excellent post Don, thanks!

Bill

[Mollygrubber]

Seconded.

[azimuth551]

Don,

Wow! That is some great information. I think I am leaning torwards the HyperPro shocks. It would be nice if there was a group buy going on to help shed some of the cost. Thanks for your time.

Brent
'07 R1200R

[Mollygrubber]

Don, do you know if Hyperpro is marketing the shocks you helped develop to the public? I have the lowered model as well, and would love a good quality suspension with as much travel as possible too... would Klaus be amenable to inquiries if you supplied his email address? I bet a few people reading this would be interested (group buy with discount, anyone?). Of course, it would have to pass scrutineering by SWMBO.

ps my loins ache for those purple springs!

[deilenberger]

I'm sure Klaus could accomidate you with lowered shocks that have full travel. His website is http://www.epmperformance.com/. Tell him you want the same sort of setup I ended up with. I went with a linear rate spring on the rear, and a progressive on the front. He can do either on either end.

And certainly ask him about a group buy - I'm sure he could offer some sort of discount.

EDIT - if you ask, HyperPro also offers the springs in black. I thought purple would be just a tad over the top on a black/w/white pinstripes bike. Prolly be fine on the slower gray/silver ones.

[bobw]

EDIT - if you ask, HyperPro also offers the springs in black. I thought purple would be just a tad over the top on a black/w/white pinstripes bike. Prolly be fine on the slower gray/silver ones.

Hahaha! Good one Don 3 pointer at the buzzer

[vodka]

With respect to A/M shocks, am I correct in saying that the ESA system cant be applied to them?? I love the ESA especially for quick decision to 2 up.