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For the past couple of weeks when I start her up in the morning, after sitting all night, and with the fast idle switch engaged, the engine turns over, runs for about one second and then abruptly dies. Restart proceeds normally without a kill. This happens on about 3/4 mornings. No problems starting the bike later in the day after work, just after sitting all night. No power loss, no rough idle, still good gas mileage. No fuel smell. no obvious leaks. And it is only bothersome because this is a change.

What could cause this? The bike has nearly 50k miles and when I last checked valves were in good adj and TB were synced. I am wondering if I have a leak in a fuel line that after sitting at night air gets in and that air is hitting the engine and causes the kill?? or maybe a bad tank of fuel, but that would produce other symptoms that are just not there, or maybe they all do that--but she hasn't until now.
Fuel filter was changed (%*^%$@!&*^$%^!!!) about 14 k ago. I use 89 octane fuel and have for a loooong time.

Is there a rec on when to change out the fuel lines because of age? I suppose it is something I should just observe until it gets worse and maybe clearer? I am going to pull the tank and look at them, but the ones that are visible look fine.

any advice appreciated

John

John,

I'll take just a general shot at this and let others add to the thought. I've had automotive problems like this, what it made me think of was a slow leak down of the fuel injectors or the fuel system in general. You have enough fuel for that brief start up, but it dies immediately. It does not reoccur because it takes quite a while to for the pressure to drop. That's my thought.

Hi John,

when she dies what happens if you try restarting immediately? Same symptoms?

I doubt it is a problem with the fuel lines. I also doubt it is an electrical problem as otherwise she wouldn't start as usual later in the day. Could be (just a guess) a little dip of water in the tank (humidity) or the fuel filter ... I would completely drain the tank and let it dry and I would also inspect/replace the fuel filter.

Kind regards
Oliver

Summer gas blend.

do you pull the fast-tickover lever up each time? is it loose, and thus the vibes are knocking it off and causing the stall??

John

Do you pull the fast idle lever all the way up and hold it there after the bike starts for a few seconds and then let it fall down to the detent? After getting on your way then push the fast idle lever down to the home position.......

Once warmed up, what is your idle rpm?

11

+1 with the strange startup syndrome, I'm with Boxer. I suspect there's a bbq side-dish in the petrol. Bike was great last week, just had a TBS and all the trimmings, took a ride to the boonies, filled her up, and it's been hard mornings with this tankful.

Airman wrote:John,

I'll take just a general shot at this and let others add to the thought. I've had automotive problems like this, what it made me think of was a slow leak down of the fuel injectors or the fuel system in general. You have enough fuel for that brief start up, but it dies immediately. It does not reoccur because it takes quite a while to for the pressure to drop. That's my thought.

me too and that was my concern

from Oliver when she dies what happens if you try restarting immediately? Same symptoms?

nope...starts right up as if nothing was wrong; and if I need to restart for whatever reason, restarting is fine--until the next morning.

From Boxer amd BMDian Summer gas blend

Could be that I suppose, though last summer I didn't have the "problem." It did start happening though after I returned from my ride out west.. Does the same thing happen to you all?

from riceburner do you pull the fast-tickover lever up each time? is it loose, and thus the vibes are knocking it off and causing the stall??

no that's not it. I pull the fast tick lever up and hold it beyond the detent position until the engine is running smoothly--couple of seconds, then let it return to the detent position. It is not loose and functions normally. And the engine is running fast when she kills

from B Mania Do you pull the fast idle lever all the way up and hold it there after the bike starts for a few seconds and then let it fall down to the detent? After getting on your way then push the fast idle lever down to the home position.......

exactly the way I do it--and iirc it is while I am holding it up that the kill happens--it happens so quickly--no longer than 2 seconds and prob a smidge over 1 sec

Once warmed up, what is your idle rpm?

1100-1150 and once warmed the problem does not occur--it has only been on the first start of the morning

When does the summer blend make its appearance in the deep south? anyone know?

And Oliver...Man! I hope it is not something like water in the tank. It's easier to have a colonoscopy than to change the fuel filter--really... having had both inflicted on me. And I was going to put some sea foam in the tank just for grins.

Has anyone swapped out all of the fuel lines just to prevent any leaks?

and thanks for all the responses

John

Dr. Strangelove wrote:It's easier to have a colonoscopy than to change the fuel filter--really... having had both inflicted on me.

Rubbish - took me 10 minutes a week or so ago - and most of that was removing and replacing the tank. Once you've done it once and have some idea of whats in the tank, hiding behind the inspection plate it's easy.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Has anyone swapped out all of the fuel lines just to prevent any leaks?

Kinda. I was experiencing leaks when the weather got colder, so it wasn't purely preventative. I ran the hoses direct without any disconnects initially. Cost was under $30 for the hose and FI clamps. I later purchased the disconnects from beamerboneyard and installed them when I put things back together from the splinectomy.

I replaced all the rubber fuel lines, clamps, and quick-disconnects (with brass ones) and it took me a while to do right. I had leakage where the fuel lines connect to the plastic lines going to the pressure regulator and TB's, and also at the metal lines coming out of the tank. By looking carefully at the ends of the hoses I could see that the inner hoses had cracks in them where they were weeping fuel, and the crimp-on clamps were loose. Tightening the clamps with a pair of diagonal pliers helped for a while, but when it got colder and the fuel lines got brittle, they leaked, so I replaced them. My first indication that there were leaks was the smell of raw gas...

That said, I doubt leaking fuel lines would cause stalling after start up unless they are really leaking, in which case you'd smell a boat-load of gas. More likely the injectors are leaking down due to some crud in the pintle valves, which can be cleaned with the judicious use of Sea-Foam. My motor went out of tune when I got a bad tank of gas up in the hills of Tennessee (probably was old gas) and was able to cure the hesitation with a couple ounces of SeaFoam and running hard on the "Snake" (Hwy 421).

I had similar issues a while back that ultimately led me to the stick coils...

riceburner wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:It's easier to have a colonoscopy than to change the fuel filter--really... having had both inflicted on me.

Rubbish - took me 10 minutes a week or so ago - and most of that was removing and replacing the tank. Once you've done it once and have some idea of whats in the tank, hiding behind the inspection plate it's easy.

respectfully disagree, RB. If you can remove the tank and replace the fuel filter (on an RR in the in tank location) in 10 minutes you have skills that are extraordinary, maybe supernatural and I will take you to dinner to change mine out

Colonoscopies take about 10 minutes

John

Thanks for all the pointers on this. I didn't want to have to change out those lines unless really necessary. Next tank some seafoam and then observe.

J

I'm reading the symptoms and trying to nail it down to the cause. It all points to the fuel. Gassing up at a remote low turnover station, especially with Ethanol in the gasoline from the last tanker truck filling, will force the new Ethanol/gas blend to absorb ALL the water in that underground tank. That gasoline "blend" will have noticeably poorer performance and response, including hard starts and cold engine stalling.

A stall out only on the first morning start, while the engine is spinning fast sounds like an air bubble or that dissolved ethanol+water at the low point in the line, which is at/near the injector. The heat from a hot engine working on the long list of new chemicals in today's gasoline and/or the sedimentary properties of the dissolved ethanol+water also will degrade fuel quality after overnite stagnation.

Run that tank at least 20 miles into the low fuel lite, then gas it up at a high turnover Texaco/Chevron (w/ Techron) station.

.

Thanks, CR.

I will try that. I haven't had a chance to ride in a couple of days, monsoon season, but plan to tomorrow. When I rode last it started fine and that was after a fresh tank. On my out west ride there were MANY stations that had ethanol and many were in out of the way places. Your theory sounds very plausible.

It it acted just like that....like there was a bubble of something non combustible that hit the engine which promptly died.

John