BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Has anyone had a R12R (or previous version) and an F650GS? I am looking for anyone that can give a good comparison with experience with both types. I have also looked at the Breva 750.

The R12R is ~$4,600 more than a 650GS. That is the downside. I don't need to go offroad but it seems the 650GS is positioned as pretty street worthy. It would be a new 650GS so would have the twin.

I love the classic look of the R12R but it is more $ than I want to pay. I also don't need that much power. I wish we had an 800R!

Btw- I am on my starter bike (Ninja 250). It is a lot of fun on short trips but looking for something that is comfortable longer than 20 minutes. I want a bike is a good balance of sport bike fun with more comfortable riding position and good on longer trips. The R12R is close to ideal (more power than I need) except for the $ but the 650GS look like a good option at a lower price.

SInce you are looking at something to cruise with, look at some of the used Thumper F650 or F650GS's. Nice bikes, not a lot of money used and cruise well.

If you want a multi-cylinder, the F800GS is pretty good too if you want to spend the money. It feels lighter because it is, and seems to me to be a little buzzy being an inline twin. Guess I prefer the nice low hum of the boxer engine. Sooooooo Smooth to ride!!!

I am prejudiced in favor of the R1200R. Most of us here will flatly state that this is a near ideal motorcycle. Great range, great power in a nice manageable package, and comfortable to ride long distances.

You also might check around for used R1200R's coming available now. Good deals can be had.

I've ridden an '05 F650gs thumper, '05 R12GS, and now an '07 R12R. It really depends on what you're after.

For me, the R12R is superior when it comes to long range and long distance riding. Fuel economy is not as good as the 650gs, but if you have a light throttle hand, the R12R still does pretty darn good. I amazingly managed 339 miles to 4.8 gallons once. The boxer engine is super smooth, and having that little extra bit of power does help to get you out of trouble sometimes. The agility of the 12R is not quite as good as the 650gs, but the 12R can still carve corners if you know how to get off of the seat. Also, the electronics on the 12R (e.g. optional computer) really helps you with all kinds of information. The 650gs thumper doesn't have this. It's still pretty much a basic bike.

The 650gs is amazing in terms of fuel range. Without any mods, you can expect 60+ MPG even when you gun the bike most of the time. It's pretty hard to get the bike down into the 50 MPG unless you're insistent on riding in 3rd gear every where you go. When I had the 650gs, I installed a 43 teeth rear sprocket (45 teeth is standard) to smooth out the bike while riding HWY speeds. It really helped to reduce the engine vibration and made the bike much more comfortable at higher speeds. Of course you lose a bit of acceleration (bottom end) from decreased rear sprocket size. Then again, you're still much faster than the majority of the cars out there, so it's OK. Taking the rear sprocket down by 2 teeth drop the RPMs by at least 500 RPMs (if not a little more). The side effect to riding at 75 MPH with less RPMs is pretty cool. The bike's fuel range increased to 74+ MPG city and nearly 83-84 MPG HWY. On one trip, my older brother with his rear sprocket modified f650gs did something like 97 MPG. Insane!

Regardless of rear sprocket mod, the 650gs can never be as smooth as the 12R. As a result, the 12R will allow you to ride much farther and have less fatigue in terms of vibration. Of course this also means you have to get a decent windshield so you don't get blasted off of the 12R when you're doing 80-90MPH. When it comes to turns, the f650gs will dust the R12R any day. Enduro bikes are built for agility. My bro kept on hugging my arshe as I was taking a turn. Of course he had to play catch up when I'm out of the turn.

As for the concern for the additional power of the R12R, don't worry too much about it. The paralever and telelever combination has the bike so stable that a minor lean forward will prevent you from flying off the bike. This is also the reason why BMW has the default sitting position slightly leaning forward. Yup, they do think of everything. I actually felt more acceleration on a 650gs than on the 12r. This is mostly due to shock compression rather than a power factor. If you tell me I should have increased the pre-load, I would say, "yeah... maybe I should have done that."

My recommendation would be, go for the gold and get the 12R. You won't regret it. However, if you do plan on getting on the trail one of these days, stick with the 650gs. As always, ride your level and slowly grow into the 12R's power. After a while I don't think you can go back to a smaller bike. Good luck and cheers.

Oh, one other thing. It's nice to have the partially-linked brakes. This allows you to use all three brakes by simply pulling on the front brake lever. The F series bikes are regarded as entry level so they don't have this capability. This means you would have to brake with both front and rear at the same time. The last time I stepped on my rear brake lever on the R12R was to prevent myself from sliding backwards on a hill while sitting at a light. Other than that, I don't touch the rear brake lever at all to slow down. I let the computer handle it for me because it's much better at it than I am. The linked brake system with ABS is also a life saver when it comes to emergency braking. It's a bad habit but all you need to do is grab a handful to stop on a dime. Unfortunately, I've had to do this a couple of time. Fortunately all three brakes are activated and I come to an immediate stop every time.

cheelleebutt wrote:Oh, one other thing. It's nice to have the partially-linked brakes. This allows you to use all three brakes by simply pulling on the front brake lever. The F series bikes are regarded as entry level so they don't have this capability. This means you would have to brake with both front and rear at the same time. The last time I stepped on my rear brake lever on the R12R was to prevent myself from sliding backwards on a hill while sitting at a light. Other than that, I don't touch the rear brake lever at all to slow down. I let the computer handle it for me because it's much better at it than I am. The linked brake system with ABS is also a life saver when it comes to emergency braking. It's a bad habit but all you need to do is grab a handful to stop on a dime. Unfortunately, I've had to do this a couple of time. Fortunately all three brakes are activated and I come to an immediate stop every time.

Thank you for both posts. Very helpful. I was very surprised to learn that the F650GS corners better than the R12R. The R12R has a sport type stance and lower height so I assumed it would corner better.

If I get a F650GS it will be a 2009 so it will have the detuned 800cc from the F800GS.

I would have to disagree that the RR is lacking in cornering ability.... I quite regularly scrape the pegs on mine without really trying, and have no problem keeping up with crotch-rockets in twisties. I really don't even have to lean off either!

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Brakes: Always use both brakes all the time. Squeeze the front and Press the rear. You can get away with grabbing only the front brake on the RR due to the fine ABS system, but it is a really, really bad idea to get into that habit. If you happen to have an emergency on a non-linked, non-abs bike you will crash hard when you lock up the front wheel because you habitually use only the front brake.


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ka5ysy wrote:-- INSTRUCTOR MODE ON --

Brakes: Always use both brakes all the time. Squeeze the front and Press the rear. You can get away with grabbing only the front brake on the RR due to the fine ABS system, but it is a really, really bad idea to get into that habit. If you happen to have an emergency on a non-linked, non-abs bike you will crash hard when you lock up the front wheel because you habitually use only the front brake.


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Never ride anything but an R1200R - that's how I avoid the situation above.. and I only use the front brake except for slow speed turns for trail braking, and to hold myself at a hill or traffic light.

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ka5ysy wrote:I would have to disagree that the RR is lacking in cornering ability.... I quite regularly scrape the pegs on mine without really trying, and have no problem keeping up with crotch-rockets in twisties. I really don't even have to lean off either!

-- INSTRUCTOR MODE ON --

Brakes: Always use both brakes all the time. Squeeze the front and Press the rear. You can get away with grabbing only the front brake on the RR due to the fine ABS system, but it is a really, really bad idea to get into that habit. If you happen to have an emergency on a non-linked, non-abs bike you will crash hard when you lock up the front wheel because you habitually use only the front brake.


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Yes, most people would disagree with me that an enduro can out turn a sport bike, but that's OK. Everybody is allowed to their own.

Yes! agreed. Know your equipment and know your limits. I adjust my riding technique based on the motorcycle that I'm on. I only use the front brake when I'm on an R bike that has partially-linked brakes. When I'm on an F bikes, I brake both at the same time. Bottom line, don't get yourself into a situation where you're going to emergency brake. That's a bad habit in itself if you encounter too many of those. Be aware of your situation and always put yourself into a safe riding location. Well, as safe as possible, and remember your life is much more important than any hunk of metal. Aluminum, plastic, rubber, and metal can all be replaced, you can't. I'm sure there are at least several people out there in this world that appreciates you being around.

deilenberger wrote: -- NON INSTRUCTOR MODE ON --
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I'm sorry. I don't intend on being mean but this is just so funny!