Sales hype or untrustworthy dealer?

Post by **challey** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:37 pm

After a few miles this summer on my R, my brother was sold on BMW and is now negotiating for a R1200RT. The dealer won't budge from the factory list price, so I suggested that my brother get them to throw a few extras in. Since the bike is pretty well loaded, I told him to see if he could get some the dealer to do some of the mods he's probably going to wind up having to do anyway such as replacing the flimsy oil filler plug with a MotoTechniques or Wunderlich, swapping out the OEM QDs for Omegas and replacing the fuel line Oetiker clamps with screw-types.

The salesman told him that he'd look into the possibility of a new oil filler plug but that replacing the stock fuel clamps would void the warranty! When my brother told me this, my first reaction was to tell him to calmly point out to the saleman that he was 100% wrong. Upon reflection though, I think there's a larger issue here. If the dealer is willing to grossly misrepresent a relatively small thing like that, can you really trust them in a nearly $20,000 purchase?

Maybe the right advice in this case is for my brother is to find another dealer?

Charlie

Post by **Buckster** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:21 pm

It wouldn't hurt to shop around, but I can almost gaurantee that no one will change out the stock QD's with aftermarket ones on a brand new bike. I don't know about the voiding the warranty part...I'm not sure how upgrading from plastic to metal would void the warranty, but I cant imagine a dealer would even notice that they were changed by the owner and would not cover any issues with the bike not associated with the QD's.

Post by **Biff's R** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:46 am

I would shop around on the price, and would ask about accessories that did not require a significant amount of labor. I.e. top box, discount on next set of tires, etc. But look around on the price of the bike.

The dealer is going to run like hell from doing the fuel lines or quick disconnects for free.

Post by **boxermania** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 am

Agree with the others.....Shop around.....

Post by **OU812** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:26 am

I have a dealer (the closest to my home) that sounds just like the one you are dealing with. Shop around.

Post by **sjbmw** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:52 am

I got new fuel QD's under warranty for a R1150R, but that was for a recall.

Has the R1200RT had a recall or advisory?
Why would a R1200RT need them?

Usually after a recall, subsequent models have the issue addressed.

Post by **baltm604** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:28 pm

this time of year I would shop around, or better yet, wait till the financing deals in january that always seem to pop up.

North of the mason/dixon line, new bikes that are on the floor in october will most likely be there in march as well. How can you pay list this time of year?

Bill

Post by **iowabeakster** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:09 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but this is my understanding.

BMW sets those rules, not the dealers. The dealer may lose their franchise if they break the contractual obligations in the franchise agreement.

Consequently, I believe that the dealers are not allowed to negotiate price. BMW may give cash back, or financing deals to help move units that are not selling. This allows the smaller dealerships a chance at the sale. Otherwise, the high-volume places would be selling on ebay. We would end up with far fewer dealerships across the country. The dealers may give some discounts on additional farkles and such.

MSRP it is (and stock parts)...unless authorized by BMW.

If the Omegas' were to fail out on the road, some other dealer will have to do the replacement, paid for by BMW??? No way are they gonna do stuff like that.

Post by **challey** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:14 pm

It probably wasn't clear enough in my original post but the QDs were not the issue.

The allegation by the salesman was that using screw-type FI clamps in place of the OEM Oeticker clamps would completly void the motorcyle warranty. Surely the saleman knows that if the transmission fails BMW can't say "Sorry, no warranty coverage because you used screw clamps on the fuel system", but that was clearly what he was implying.

It was that level of untruthfulness that I found worrisome.

Charlie

Post by **baltm604** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:26 pm

it may have changed, but when I bought my bike, the bike is the property of the individual dealership. dealers can trade stock at the discretion, or sell stock to another dealer, but BMW NA has almost nothing to do with it, execpt offerring to ship the crated unassembled bike at a small fee.

I made at least 40 phone calls to get the bike I wanted swapped to the dealer I wanted. BMW NA had no system in place to manage inventory at the dealer level. My guess is that BMW treats each bike as sold as soon as it "sold" to the individual dealer.

this being said, I paid below list for my bike. A dealer can sell his stock at his discretion afaik.

Dealers do sell below list.

Bill

Post by **machew01** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:32 pm

Challey,

One thought: my local dealer says that the RT is far and away their biggest selling model. They always keep RT's in stock because they know that they can sell them. Here in Raleigh, at least, it's a seller's market for the RT.

One more thought: If one were to assume that every fault reported on the internet were to happen to one's new bike, that bike would never be purchased. Don't let your brother worry about problems that haven't even occurred - and probably won't. Since March, 2004, I've bought 2 new BMW motorcycles, and in a total of 60,000 miles, I haven't had any trouble at all with either of them.

mac

Post by **MikeCam** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:19 pm

On first reading my reaction is that the salesman was an idiot (not surprising) but that the dealership (and ownership) need not feel your lack of trust. It is extremely common for people to misunderstand the U.S. law about warranty and for salespeople to mistate facts. But ignorance is not lying.

On second reading, I think those items you asked to have replaced at some discount in lieu of a discount from MSRP on the bike are unreasonable. Most dealers will reduce the price of accessories from BMW or alternatively provide free labor at the time of sale and installation on the new bike, but I have not ever heard of reductions on aftermarket items. At any rate, that is certainly a dealer's decision and not a matter of trustworthiness.

On third reading, the fuel line clamps you wish to have versus those provided by BMW constitute a material change to the engineering and design of the fuel system using a non-specified (and non-certified) user selected part. That does void the warranty for any part of the bike related to the form, function, safety, integrity and roadworthiness of the fuel delivery sub-system. It might also void BMW Mottorrad's responsibility to make the dealer whole, should your part fail or contribute to any failure, or be reasonably expected to have contributed to any failure which subsequently occurs. Many dealers, out of an abundance of caution, will refuse to install a user specified part for this reason. Still, it's not a matter of honesty as much as good business practice to refuse unreasonable customer requests.

itimna bundok · Post by **itimna bundok** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:09 pm

I got a baseball cap with my purchase!

Marku · Post by **Marku** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:22 pm

Personally after buying from the most convenient dealer to my home. I have regrets on not shopping around.

I believe now that when purchasing a motorcycle, it is worth expanding your radius to maybe a 1-3 day trip to find the bike you want(more if you're willing). And just drive or haul it home. Really its just a bonus to have a local BMW dealer to be there for servicing. Don't give in just because they happen to be close to your house is all I'm saying.

If you are going to buy it brand new. I'd shop on the phone. Call other BMW dealers. Seriously.

Marku · Post by **Marku** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:45 pm

http://www.cycletrader.com/index.html