Hurricane Katrina

[NoRRmad]

And I agree that the RFK Jr. posting was a cheap shot. Global warming is probably real, but Katrina was well within the measurable margin of error. Even if we immediately stopped buring all fossil fuels, still the occasional hurricane would hit New Orleans.

Too bad the levee projects were delayed for so long, and so underfunded, and too bad there are so few National Guardsmen available to deploy to Louisiana and Mississippi.

Edit: Whoops, I forgot we weren't in Pat's Playhouse.

[marko]

My thoughts go out to everyone caught in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina. Truly awful images and hard to comprehend the scale of the disaster.

We lost our northern most Capital city "Darwin" on Christmas Day 1974, to Cyclone Tracey, 100% destroyed. Its remotness was a huge problem and many died, but the scale of the New Orleans disaster is breathtaking and the flooding looks like it has been the main killer. - I would be interested to learn the history of the city and why it is built below sea level - in a hurricane zone!!! Amazing.

Judging from reports i heard today, there is going to be huge fallout as 4/5ths of the levy rebuilding budget was diverted and FEMA tabled a report that had this disaster as one of the big three threats to the US.
1 Major Earthquake in California
2 Terrorist Attack on New York
3 New Orleans destroyed by Flooding.

This report was May 2001.
2 of the 3 have happened..

We are thinking of you and trust no-one from this board is in any danger.

[wncbmw]

Here is a report on why the situation in New Orleans is so bad and the response seems ineffective. Although this is usually a political site and there are some minor political references, the magnitude of what has happened makes anyone's politics irrelevent. Which is the point of the article.

http://www.freewillblog.com/index.php/w ... ents/6017/

My thoughts are with the people of the Gulf Coast and I hope all the board members down there are OK.

[Pat]

I fear the same kind of energy that the earth/cosmic conditions released via "Katrina", may soon be released again on the west coast of America.

Possibly MORE dangerous than terrorism and yet another "natural" disaster, may well be the crazed mind-set of displaced people and the likes of looters seen of late on the (new) Gulf Coast.

The inevitable response to the resulting chaotic conditions via necessary and inadequate policing will be the topic of talking heads, and the actions of the (new) Police will be sensationalized with much drama. Surprisingly, those once considered "liberal" may well become the biggest advocates of aggressive law enforcement.

It would take only one more major natural disaster in the United States to bring on the darkest of days. It's a VERY real liklihood...... and we likely won't be able to recover economically. Just ONE MORE disaster......

[yjleesvrr]

I am in absolute, utter shock at what is going on in the Gulf Coast. When I hopped on my Roadster at the beginning of last week at the start of my tour of the East Coast, Katrina was barely a Cat 1 hurricane. Next thing I know, I'm reading that it had developed into a monstrous Cat 5 that weakened to a 4 before slamming catastrophically on land.

The flooding of New Orleans makes me wonder how in the world a more robust system of levees wasn't built in this day and age. This is a major city in the United States with significant cultural and economic contributions to the country. The fact that it has been so devestated is surprising, to say the least. The human tragedy is unspeakable.

[rdsmith3]

Yong,

The best I can tell, there are two main responses to what you asked.

First, it has been known for a while that the infrastructure is inadequate. It was known that a Cat 3 storm would cause devastation. In another post under the topic Media Bias in the Playhouse, I quoted from a Wall St. Journal article that details some requests by the Army Corps of Engineers to fix the problem in New Orleans. A lot of politics is involved.

Second, this storm seems fairly unique. For example, a co-worker's brother had a house destroyed in Gulfport MS in an area of nice homes. In a whole six mile area, most homes were destroyed but two were left standing, fairly intact. The random nature of the destruction suggests that there were tornado-like wind funnels around the eye of the hurricane. There was an incredible amount of energy around this storm. The mighty Mississippi River was actually flowing backwards for a while around the mouth because of swells from the Gulf. It was a storm of incredible magnitude.

[garylspolar]

People in New Orleans have been fighting and setting fires in the Superdome, and shooting at the rescue helicopters with guns and ammo looted from Walmart.

This is one heluva reality show, folks. What a meltdown.

[garylspolar]

There was one crime that New Orleans fared well in, during the last census, "Forcible Rape". Seems that statistic will be changing. Add "Forcible Rape" to the looting, fighting, arson, murdering, and shooting at rescue helicopters.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_ ... ne_katrina

snipet:

"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

[FGanger]

Well the answer to my post is coming in. I’m quite glad to see what is happening. Below are quotes off of Fox News web site.
------------------------------


Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sent a letter to President Bush offering hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians and other experts in trauma, natural disasters and public health.

"We also offer field hospitals, medical kits and equipment for temporary housing, reinforcement for hospitals, or any assistance that you may require," Sharon wrote.
He said the teams and equipment could be ready in 24 hours.

With offers from the four corners of the globe pouring in, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Thursday.

Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States, the spokesman said.

------------------------------
I thought the US wouldn’t really see any aid from other countries, with the exception of the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada.

Sometimes I love being wrong. My thanks to the countries who showed me just how wrong I could be.

Frank

[wncbmw]

Sounds like the chaos in NO is becoming more like a bad science fiction movie. Lawless gangs roaming the streets, no food, water or sanitation. The sick and weak being preyed upon.

Something like this brings out the best in people - and the worse!

[marko]

I thought the US wouldn’t really see any aid from other countries, with the exception of the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada.

An emergency team of 20 Australian experts could depart almost immediately, Prime Minister Howard says.

"We haven't been approached but we have approached the Americans," Mr Howard told ABC radio.

Mr Howard said Australia was still waiting to hear back from the Americans.

"There should not be an assumption that because America is the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world this isn't a major challenges and a major crisis," he said.

"You only have to see the scenes of devastation on television."

Mr Howard said Australia had expertise in disaster relief which would be of practical help in the US.

- AAP

Hopefully our small contingent can be of assistance.

I can't imagine the horror of losing everything but then also be a refugee in your own country because you city is uninhabitable.

[RiftonRoadster]

The flooding of New Orleans makes me wonder how in the world a more robust system of levees wasn't built in this day and age. This is a major city in the United States with significant cultural and economic contributions to the country. The fact that it has been so devestated is surprising, to say the least. The human tragedy is unspeakable.

The link below takes you to a place where you might find an answer to the question
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp ... 1001051313

[FGanger]

What the . . .

First I heard that the Russians offered help which was turned down by FEMA. Okay, I can understand that (sort of); the Russians may not speak English and would not be able to be directed by FEMA personnel. Last night Mayor Daley of Chicago said that his help was turned down. Why? Because “FEMA would not be able to direct them.” Apparently the agency accepted a tanker truck of fuel from the city.

I guess there is a lot more to this getting food and water to hungry, thirsty people than I know.

One more thing. I saw a television blurb on a victim of the hurricane being interviewed after receiving the first meal she had in days. The food was the same type our military gets while in combat. When asked how she felt after getting the ready to go meal, “It wasn’t heated.”

Now I don’t know about you, but I’ve gone a couple of days without food and water. I know what I ate for I can still taste it in the back of my throat. A kerosene soaked bologna sandwich - long story.

Well I’m off to spend two days with my therapist. A loop around the Great Lakes is the prescription and I’m an excellent patient.

Frank

[DJ Downunder]

In the Aussie News they're saying the Americans don't want or need our help...even though we are more than willing to help.

Bush must be very embarrassed about all this considering all the warnings from the experts..and I thought that the tsunami was bad..this is really bad.

We've seen some shocking footage on the telly....it's all very sad indeed.

DJ

[wncbmw]

I work with a lady who used to live in NO and her husband was a NO cop. They still have contacts there and said there was lots of relief supplies outside the city but not allowed in due to the brazen thugs shooting at relief and search and rescue folks. Unarmed relief supply vehicles were being highjacked at gunpoint. Apparently the initial decision to focus the cops and troops on search and rescue and ignore looters and gangs backfired.

Of course, it they had made the opposite decision, it would have been critized also.

A terrible situation. While everyone screams at the Feds, I still believe the local govenments, city and state, have initial responsibilities for prioritizing aid and rescues efforts, and there were apparent failures in that respect. I am not surprised a federal agency is slow, that is the nature of the beast! At least the military relief convoys aren't being attacked, with all the M-16s sticking out of the windows!

[wncbmw]

Some additional information I just found at the National Review site on one reason aid could not get through in an email sent to them:

I'm sick and tired of the media's treatment of the Katrina relief efforts. I run a trade association of tank truck carriers trying to assist in the relief efforts by transporting food and potable water. I'm in regular contact with many of the companies, and here are some "on the ground" facts:
1) Large trucks (80,000 lbs. gross weight) almost always have to use the Interstates. For trucks attempting to come in from outside the area, most of those roads (approaching the disaster area) are either closed or have bridges out. The so-called secondary roads may be somewhat passable, but their bridges (over rivers and streams) are not built to sustain such loads. Simply stated, you can't get there from here.

2) Trucks domicled in those areas (because that's where the companies traditionally serve customers) are still underwater, thus the equipment is not accessible;

3) Nobody in their right mind is going to take loads of gasoline and fuel oil into a city controlled by unfriendly folks carrying automatic weapons. A tank truck loaded with 8,000 gallons of gasoline can produce a very impressive fire;

4) Those local trucking companies can't contact their drivers. There's no power, thus (even) cellular is unavailable, and many of the drivers homes (in places like Kenner, Slidel, Metarie, etc) have been destroyed and families dispersed. I have one member with about 120 drivers and mechanics in that immediate area. To date, management has been able to contact 12. Those in the National Guard have been mobilized and are not available to drive.

5) Pumps -- needed to load the vehicles -- don't work because there's no power;

[Guest]

This is really freaky. I'm watching a 2005 National Geographic "Explorer" episode, called, "Violent Earth". A good portion of the show is dedicated to hurricanes, and specifically the city of New Orleans. They talk of a city under water.

Scientists knew this was inevitable, no doubt.

[scottybooj]

Our government has FAILED MISERABLY in EVERY way with regards to this tragedy.

1) they knew it would happen, and they didn't finish the public works project (levee project) that was started 40 years ago.
2) not prepared for something they knew would eventually happen.
3) didn't react quick enough to something they knew would eventually happen.
4) failed to direct all rescue agencies from the get go with something they knew would eventually happen.

did I mention this would eventually happen?

I am very disappointed in Bush right now. I voted for him and I will be the first to state HE BLOWS when it comes to rallying his people and getting the hard jobs done. he sucks, sucks sucks sucks sucks.

He flat out stated we didn't need anyhelp in his interview tuesday morning. He's correct in that we have the RESOURCES but we obviously can't pull everything together when in a pinch.

Pathetic, sad, aggravating, disappointing, and SCARY. Could you imagine if we had 2 catastrophes within our borders at the same time of this magnitude? we'd be up the river, sinking, without a paddle.

[DJ Downunder]

Scott I agree......and no one mention the California fault line...or whatever it's called...now that would be bad.

DJ

[wncbmw]

scott - I would be the last to defend the bureaucracy, since I rave about them all the time, but I disagree with some of your points.

they knew it would happen, and they didn't finish the public works project (levee project) that was started 40 years ago.

Yes, the upgrades to the levees have been put off since the LBJ adminitration. But one of the failed levees had been upgraded and failed anyway. It was designed for a Cat 3 storm instead of a 4 or 5.

not prepared for something they knew would eventually happen.

Absolutely! And much of the failure is on the local and state level. Apparently they had been warned by FEMA that their planning was inadequate. And it sure was. There is lots of finger pointing going both ways, but DHS now says they weren't informed of the severity of the situation at Superdome until Thursday. They are all covering their butts now apparently.

didn't react quick enough to something they knew would eventually happen

Agreed but quick reactions aren't the forte of big bureaucracies. That is why local initial responses matter so much.

failed to direct all rescue agencies from the get go with something they knew would eventually happen.

Again, there is mass confusion at this time, but sometimes the Feds can't just come in a take over, nor should they. The use of troops, excepting the National Guard, can't be done until requested by the Governor for example. And as to be expected, I sure there are lots of turf battles being fought over who is in charge.

The bottom line is, lets forget all the finger pointing until the people have been rescued and the situation under control. Then an impartial and non-partician after-action report should be done to determine what went wrong because something similar will happen again sometime. There should be lots of things done wrong to examine and correct!