BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Seeing as I spend a few miles on dirt and gravel I would also like to turn it off at times. Someone checked it out using the hardware and software from a GS but it was extremely expensive. If you could turn it off the R1200R (IMHO) would be the perfect dirt road bike.

Websterize -

Your Asimov quote implies that only the stupid or ignorant would chose a non-ABS motorcycle. I'm not sure how that adds value to the debate, but then I've never seen the point of poking a hornets' nest. There's nothing much to learn and there's a high risk of being stung.

Here's another Asimov quote for you to ponder: 'Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.'

By the way - ABS, ACS and TPM are not 'insurance'. Insurance is only used after you crash.

Tom

The ABS issue seems to conjure up such strong emotions. Why?

It always seems to start out with someone saying they want it or not and then someone feeling it is a personal attack on them.

Are those that have it and promote it smarter and more responsible? Are those that don't have it and do not promote better and more skilled riders? If you belong in the other camp are you made to feel you are less intelligent or less skilled a rider?

I obviously have fought this battle but haven't we all learned that it will end up the same way if treated the same way and maybe somehow it would be nice to actually try to see the other's side?

I am going to throw something out there, kind of a flow chart.

Develop desire to ride a motorcycle => learn to ride a motorcycle => acquire some kind of motorcycle => ride a motorcycle in real world => acquire the motorcycle => practice operating motorcycle to the limits you are comfortable and able => ride within those limits => add all of the technology you feel necessary likely making those limts even safer and address concerns if you prefer => ride and enjoy

Does that make sense?

I think ABS should be promoted as a safety aid. I also fully believe in proper rider training and skills development. Maybe either one is good enough for some. Maybe having both is better. I just like having a choice.

One thing I fully believe is that with ABS becoming mandatory in more places it will get even better. I know it is good now, certainly much, much better than 2 of the versions I have owned (with servos). I have heard of few issues with the new non-servo models but since there are so many fewer motorcycles on the road I doubt that the technology has has reached it's full potential. If it is mandated no failure rate is acceptable and will be closely monitored.

This level of emotion at this site rivals the BMW vs. Harley debate on others and we are all riding the same brand. Are we all so much the same we have to look for little issues to argue over?

Very interesting but I have to admit that this thread has done much better than others...

qfman wrote:By the way - ABS, ACS and TPM are not 'insurance'. Insurance is only used after you crash.

On the contrary, Tom, they are options that provide protection against the possible eventuality of a crash, which is more likely to happen on an ABS-free R12R.

Been riding 50 years +, on roads and on dirt, and never had ABS or ASC until this R1200R, nor did I feel that I needed them.

Now, personally-speaking, I love 'em both!

My only complaint is that neither are switchable, which I would prefer, but I'm still glad I have them.

YMMV, of course.

Webster -

You have missed the point. A person buys an insurance policy so that, in the event of crash/theft occasioning loss, he/she may seek financial compensation. The insurance policy does not prevent the crash/theft. Therefore ABS, ASC etc are not 'insurance' as you put it.

Alphabet soup or not - who cares? People should get whichever one is good for them after getting a few opinions. I've had both. There are pros and cons and it's great to have a choice. I just don't appreciate the inference that I'm stupid or ignorant because I chose to go without ABS. Burying the comment in a quote doesn't make it any less disrespectful.

Tom

qfman wrote:The insurance policy does not prevent the crash/theft. Therefore ABS, ASC etc are not 'insurance' as you put it.

You're misunderstanding my use of insurance — I'm not talking about a policy guaranteeing compensation. I'm talking about insurance in the sense of something providing protecting against a possible outcome — e.g. the "alphabet soup".

Safe travels, Tom.

"Insurance" can be used exactly as Tom is using it. Silly argument.

famousperson wrote:"Insurance" can be used exactly as Tom is using it. Silly argument.

But then it is also commonly used as Bill is using it.


I know the weather is turning cold in the North but this is stupid.

mogu83 wrote: I know the weather is turning cold in the North but this is stupid.

Agreed ! At least Im not the only one that may need some moto therapy . . . lol.

I'm off to buy a winter bike this weekend.

cheers,

Jed

Chumley wrote:The ABS issue seems to conjure up such strong emotions. Why?

It always seems to start out with someone saying they want it or not and then someone feeling it is a personal attack on them.

Are those that have it and promote it smarter and more responsible? Are those that don't have it and do not promote better and more skilled riders? If you belong in the other camp are you made to feel you are less intelligent or less skilled a rider?

I obviously have fought this battle but haven't we all learned that it will end up the same way if treated the same way and maybe somehow it would be nice to actually try to see the other's side?

I am going to throw something out there, kind of a flow chart.

Develop desire to ride a motorcycle => learn to ride a motorcycle => acquire some kind of motorcycle => ride a motorcycle in real world => acquire the motorcycle => practice operating motorcycle to the limits you are comfortable and able => ride within those limits => add all of the technology you feel necessary likely making those limts even safer and address concerns if you prefer => ride and enjoy

Does that make sense?

I think ABS should be promoted as a safety aid. I also fully believe in proper rider training and skills development. Maybe either one is good enough for some. Maybe having both is better. I just like having a choice.

One thing I fully believe is that with ABS becoming mandatory in more places it will get even better. I know it is good now, certainly much, much better than 2 of the versions I have owned (with servos). I have heard of few issues with the new non-servo models but since there are so many fewer motorcycles on the road I doubt that the technology has has reached it's full potential. If it is mandated no failure rate is acceptable and will be closely monitored.

This level of emotion at this site rivals the BMW vs. Harley debate on others and we are all riding the same brand. Are we all so much the same we have to look for little issues to argue over?

Very interesting but I have to admit that this thread has done much better than others...

Oh C'mon, are you trying to infuse logic and reasoning into this debate? That is rediculous!!

Gentlemen, it is very simple to see the effectiveness of ABS vs. non-ABS. Sometimes either one works just the same as articulated in this pic as follows: