Oil fill cap leaks after hard running

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CycleRob
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Oil fill cap leaks after hard running

Post by CycleRob »

I got PM'd by a new member with a question about an oil leak. One thing troubling to me was that I thought the OilHead rider was unnecessarily reving the engine too high steady cruising in the lower gears with sustained 4,000+ engine RPM's in 92F (33.3C) summer heat. Obviously, without an oil temp gauge. Here's the (condensed) PM:
I went on a 180 mile ride today in about 92 degree weather (I don't know if that makes a difference, but thought I would throw it in there just in case). When I stopped for lunch I noticed oil around the oil filler cap and some on the sparkplug cover. Not a whole lot, but enough for me to notice it. I could run my finger over it and pick up some on my finger. I took a look at the stock oil filler cap's O ring. It still looks brand new. I wiped off all the oil and put everything back together. I don't see any leaks from anywhere else on the bike. If it matters what type of riding I did - I rode about 45 min in stop and go traffic, then rode 80% of the rest of the trip above 70 mph, hitting 105 a couple of times. Shifting usually around 4800-5000 rpms and riding around 4000-4200 RPM's.
Is there a chance that I have an ongoing problem with the (crankcase) pressure building up and not being released the right way? It seems like the normal pressure build up should have a place to be released and I don't think it would be through the filler cap.
Well !

The combination of stop-n-go traffic, high engine speeds and high summer heat can easily get the engine and it's oil hotter than 300F (148.9C) - - - especially reving the engine wih the gearbox mostly in the lower 3 gears. That means the windspeed is marginal for the extra heat being generated by a high reving big twin. That heat can cause the plastic oil fill cap and mating base to stretch/distort while the overheated O ring softens enough to allow the crankcase's pulsating pressure waves to force out a small amount of oil. Also possible is excessive piston blow-by from an overheated, heavily loaded engine overwhelming the timed breather's nominal flow capacity. Most likely a combination of the two. Normally there is a slight negative crankcase pressure maintained by the timed breather passageways machined in the crankshaft when the engine is running. You can observe/confirm the negative pressure by unscrewing the oil cap while the engine idles. It will be pulsating violently and held in place by suction.

Since stop-n-go traffic really overheats the engine in summer, running it over 4,000 RPMs in the lower gears while cruising steady in the lower 4 gears will make it much hotter still. With conventionl oils you have a recipe for disaster when oil temps go over 300F (148.9C) for an extended period. Not so troublesome with synthetics.

Sometimes the riding pace doesn't allow taking it easy on an overheated engine, but you must not make things worse by using high steady state RPMs in the lower 4 gears when lower RPM's will do. When faced with those conditions described above, my tach needle is 2,200----2,600 steady cruising in the lower gears until I see the crankcase temperature go below 210F (98.9C).

BTW, My oil cap has never leaked, but after it popped out while riding normally -and- reading of everyone else's leaky caps, it promped me to examine it very closely early in my bike's ownership. I noticed very minute casting flash crossing under the O-ring's sealing surfaces on the black plastic base, the part the cap screws into that's pressed into the valvecover. Check both the inner and outer O-ring's channels. Careful scraping with a knife removed the barely noticeable flash. Re-installing it required a little oil, a large socket serving as a special tool and a lot of hand pressure. Do not attempt to remove yours if you have minimal wrenching talents as you'll likely break it trying to re-install it.

I'm one of the few weird one's that likes the lightweight, heavily finned, cool looking, leak-free, stock plastic fillercap.
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Post by GeoffJ »

If you overfill the engine with oil, it will often leak through the filler cap.
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Post by Lion_Lady »

GeoffJ wrote:If you overfill the engine with oil, it will often leak through the filler cap.
+1.

Got to agree. If he added oil before heading out, because he thought it was "low" according to the sight glass, then it might have been overfilled before he even started his ride.

P
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Post by CycleRob »

The post was quite prolific and needed to be condensed. I might have gone too far there. Here's the pertinent part you refer to:
I rode on home watching it and when I got home I did the oil check routine (I use this one: sidestand 5 min. Then centerstand and then check oil after 30 min). Oil was just above the center dot.
No oil was added. A small amount of oil was leaked, but went all over the place within a couple inches - - - as usual. A serious oil leak would coat pantlegs and the left side of the bike.

I suspect brief sessions of excess blow-by from a slightly overheated engine run very hard.
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Post by pneuby »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm told that 'weepage' is yet another characteristic of boxers. I have a minute amount around the cap. You can tell where all of the dirt and dust sticks to it. Yes, I have a fresh gasket in place, but it still takes only a half-turn to tighten it into place.

?
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Post by vas2grny »

The cap leaks because of the plastic bit it sits on gets warped. Had happened on my Rockster. Dealer changed it all was fine until the plastic warped again. I guess it can't take the heat generated by the engine.
It's no biggie just wipe down every so often.
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Post by NHighCotton »

Speaking of oil leaks,

Does anyone else have a little sweating from the cam covers?? Do the aftermarket machined covers fix this?

Also, my sight glass seems to sweat too. :cry:
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Re: Oil fill cap leaks after hard running

Post by MattPie »

CycleRob wrote:
then rode 80% of the rest of the trip above 70 mph, hitting 105 a couple of times. Shifting usually around 4800-5000 rpms and riding around 4000-4200 RPM's.
Since stop-n-go traffic really overheats the engine in summer, running it over 4,000 RPMs in the lower gears while cruising steady in the lower 4 gears will make it much hotter still. With conventionl oils you have a recipe for disaster when oil temps go over 300F (148.9C) for an extended period. Not so troublesome with synthetics.

Sometimes the riding pace doesn't allow taking it easy on an overheated engine, but you must not make things worse by using high steady state RPMs in the lower 4 gears when lower RPM's will do. When faced with those conditions described above, my tach needle is 2,200----2,600 steady cruising in the lower gears until I see the crankcase temperature go below 210F (98.9C).
If confused: if I were cruising at the above mentioned 70mph in 6th gear, I'd be turning at the same 4000-4200 RPM. Did the original poster mean that he was revving to 5000 in the stop and go or just after the traffic cleared out?
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Post by mnnden »

I have experenced the same thing, it has only happened a couple of times and it was after (or durning) an extended hard run (85 mph and over) for an hour or two. I was concerned at first, but when I check the oil evertything seemed fine, that and the fact it only happened a couple of times I don't worry about it.Den
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Post by acejones »

Don't worry about. Mine did this on the first day of a 1500 mile ride through Central Mexico this year. The rest of the days, nothing. I think it may have been a little overfilled.
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Post by CycleRob »

This is so coincidental it seems fabricated. I got stuck in a traffic jam on I-85 north of Atlanta GA today.
Lots of 1st and 2nd gear creaping, 90F (32.2C) outside temp,very little cooling breezes and my motor just kept getting hotter until I saw 300F (148.9C) for the first time ever. Full synthetic oil so I was only a little worried. I was on the verge of stopping in the next available shaded shoulder. The idle raised itself +150 RPM higher to 1,250. Just as the display changed to 300F the traffic finally got back up to 60MPH (96.5 kph). It took well over 20 miles (32.2 km) at 6th gear highway cruise for the crankcase temp, where my sensor is installed, to drop below 210F (98.9C). The Daytona LCD temp gauge told me exactly how far I could safely push the overheating ceiling. I made supper on time.
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Post by GeoffJ »

Lion_Lady wrote:
GeoffJ wrote:If you overfill the engine with oil, it will often leak through the filler cap.
+1.

Got to agree. If he added oil before heading out, because he thought it was "low" according to the sight glass, then it might have been overfilled before he even started his ride.

P
Ask me how I know.... Prior to a recent 1300-mile weekend trip. I topped off my oil, bringing the level to the top of the sight glass. When I rode at sustained speeds over 80 mph, I noticed oil leaking from the cap. Blow-by past the cap's o-ring seal was the path of least resistance.
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dry it

Post by pjpockets »

to stop the leak all you have to do is dry the seal area in the in the oil fill hole, and dry the cap and o-ring. if the ring is bad then replace it. Its just like any other gasket that gets compromised with oil....... it leaks.
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Post by 1150rTodd »

Mine did that at around 25,000 miles. I replaced all four pieces that make up the seal/ring/cap etc. Didn't have a problem after that.
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Post by NHighCotton »

NHighCotton wrote:Speaking of oil leaks,

Does anyone else have a little sweating from the cam covers?? Do the aftermarket machined covers fix this?

Also, my sight glass seems to sweat too. :cry:
:roll: Had a BMW mechanic tell me today that running synthetic oil could be my problem, also said synthetic was not necessary in my bike since I change it every 5K anyway.

Might just go back to pure Dino on the next change :smt017
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Post by TX2Step »

You can soak the o-ring in brake fluid overnight to make it swell up and seal better. That lasts for a few months.

I did that for a while then installed a Moto Techniques oil filler plug assembly. Unlike most others, it replaces the entire plug and valve cover insert, and requires the removal of the valve cover to install. I had installed this on my previous oilhead and they do not leak!! Ever! Insertion and removal of the plug requires a 6 mm hex wrench instead of some fancy key.

http://www.moto-techniques.com
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Post by Sunbeemer »

That's interesting...I just started using Castrol semi-synthetic blend now that I've got 15k miles on it, and the cap and left cam cover just started leaking. I was wondering if it was related, so thanks for that post. Maybe I'll go back to dino to see if it stops. I heard synthetic oil made airhead seals leak... :(
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Post by DJ Downunder »

That's interesting...I just started using Castrol semi-synthetic blend now that I've got 15k miles on it, and the cap and left cam cover just started leaking. I was wondering if it was related, so thanks for that post. Maybe I'll go back to dino to see if it stops. I heard synthetic oil made airhead seals leak...
Modern synthetic oils do three things.

1...Lub
2...cool
3...clean

It's the last one that may cause a leak...if there's any gunk around the seals helping it seal..it gets cleaned away.

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Re: dry it

Post by pneuby »

pjpockets wrote:to stop the leak all you have to do is dry the seal area in the in the oil fill hole, and dry the cap and o-ring. Its just like any other gasket that gets compromised with oil....... it leaks.
I did so on Saturday, after topping it off a bit. So far, so good. Thanks. :)
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Post by jm1515 »

I went to Lowe's and bought a 1 3/8 x 1 3/16 x 3/32 O-ring from the Faucet/Fixture section. I imagine HomeDepot et al would carry the same type of stuff....
It perfectly seals the recess around the inside of the filler hole, and makes the cap noticably tighter.
My cheapie BMW-approved all-plastic deee-lux filler cap has not leaked in ~17000mi.....
8)
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