ABS Brakes
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ABS Brakes
Hi Iam new to the forum and have been looking at purchasing a used R1150R my question is some bikes that I have looked at have abs and other don't is abs a must have? thanks............. hirschg
I bought my Rockster because i thought i needed ABS. Personally After having them it woulde really be a hard decision to get a street bike without them. I have had too many near misses with bambi.
BUT I know enough people who say they are the devils own invention.....
The only real advice i could give is take an ABS bike on a test ride and try to lock them....
Good luck with your choice
BUT I know enough people who say they are the devils own invention.....
The only real advice i could give is take an ABS bike on a test ride and try to lock them....
Good luck with your choice
You think chicks dig guys who look like road-grimed astronauts and have interesting x-rays?
As a daily commuter (45 miles one way) in Colorado, I can say that they are worth a look. Heck, they saved my life just yesterday. I have had other bikes without and have locked both wheels at times. I doubt I will every go without (at least for my main commuter/travel bike). 2 cents...
2004 Silver R1150R
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peterbulgar
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hirschg,
How much experience do you have with modern, dual-disc front brakes? After 30 years of the weak front drum brake on my R75/5, and the almost equally weak single ATE disc on my R90/6, I bought a Honda with dual front discs, and within two months I locked up the front wheel on the freeway and slid out when traffic slowed in front of me and I grabbed a big handful of brake like I was used to doing on my old bikes. I decided that I was too old and stupid to unlearn my old habits, and that my next bike should have ABS. So, I specified ABS when I purchased my new '04 R1150RA.
In the 27k miles and over two years that I've owned the bike I haven't noticed the ABS kick in once, although I still feel that I made a wise investment - I'm sure that if a deer jumps out at me, or I'm caught daydreaming I'm sure to squeeze the brake hard enough to lock it.
However, I think that BMW is still working on getting the ABS right. From the comments of others the system works fine as ABS, but I don't like the servo-assisted feature on the '04 and '05 models - too grabby at very low speeds. Also, be aware that the flat rate for bleeding the servo ABS system, which BMW recommends every two years, is 3 1/2 hours labor, although you can reduce that somewhat if you combine the serivice with other work.
Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA
How much experience do you have with modern, dual-disc front brakes? After 30 years of the weak front drum brake on my R75/5, and the almost equally weak single ATE disc on my R90/6, I bought a Honda with dual front discs, and within two months I locked up the front wheel on the freeway and slid out when traffic slowed in front of me and I grabbed a big handful of brake like I was used to doing on my old bikes. I decided that I was too old and stupid to unlearn my old habits, and that my next bike should have ABS. So, I specified ABS when I purchased my new '04 R1150RA.
In the 27k miles and over two years that I've owned the bike I haven't noticed the ABS kick in once, although I still feel that I made a wise investment - I'm sure that if a deer jumps out at me, or I'm caught daydreaming I'm sure to squeeze the brake hard enough to lock it.
However, I think that BMW is still working on getting the ABS right. From the comments of others the system works fine as ABS, but I don't like the servo-assisted feature on the '04 and '05 models - too grabby at very low speeds. Also, be aware that the flat rate for bleeding the servo ABS system, which BMW recommends every two years, is 3 1/2 hours labor, although you can reduce that somewhat if you combine the serivice with other work.
Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA
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DJ Downunder
- Honorary Lifer
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Caution - some people take the ABS debate very seriously, even personal!:roll:
I have them. There is room for improvement but for the most part I don't notice them. If they keep me from going down once in oil or slick conditions, the cost is worth it. I don't expect to see the good in them in anything other than bad conditions or panic stops where all my meager skills desert me. And they are certainly no substitute for skill and practice.
I have them. There is room for improvement but for the most part I don't notice them. If they keep me from going down once in oil or slick conditions, the cost is worth it. I don't expect to see the good in them in anything other than bad conditions or panic stops where all my meager skills desert me. And they are certainly no substitute for skill and practice.
'02 in black - the real BMW color! (Now gone to a new home)
Vann - Lifer No. 295
Vann - Lifer No. 295
I deliberately avoided ABS when I got my R second hand. Too many stories floating around regarding problems with the early ones. I have nothing against ABS and will have it on my next bike (GS), but can't say I needed it on this one. 75,000 kms and I love the stock brakes!
I ride an R1150GS Adventure with sidecar. IBA #39193
Nice can of worms to open with your very first post!
ABS has been a big controversy on this board forerver.
I have ABS on my bike, and although I've never had to use it, I can't help thinking there will be a day when it saves my butt. I was willing to spend the extra 2k for that extra peace of mind. I would offer the caveat, though, that ABS should not be used as a substitute for good braking technique.
There are some negatives to BMW's EVO ABS system. The maintenance costs are very high, and bleeding the brakes is not a project for the casual do-it-yourselfer. Special equipment is required, and the annual brake service is about $300 at your local dealership. If those noisy motors or any of the ABS system fails after your warranty is over, be prepared to get out your wallet.
Some people find the power-assist ABS to be overly sensitive, especially at low speeds. They are pretty touchy, but I had no problem getting used to them quickly. The touchiness pays off though... the brakes deliver incredible stopping power with very little effort... and I find them very easy to modulate to a smooth stop.
I like the semi-linked design on the Roadster. In an emergency, all you have to do is grab a handful of front brake, and the rear is automatically balanced... Could be a lifesaver when Grandma turns left in front of you. The semi-linked feature give you independent control of the rear brake for low-speed maneuvering.
I worry about the ABS becoming a maintenance problem as the bike gets older. My warranty ends in 2 months, and on top of that, our local dealership in Cincinnati closed last December, so there are few options for getting them worked on. Will dealers still support this unique system 10 years from now? Who knows.
Still, I'm glad I got ABS on my bike. I hope I never have to use it.
--Phil
2004 R1150RA
ABS has been a big controversy on this board forerver.
I have ABS on my bike, and although I've never had to use it, I can't help thinking there will be a day when it saves my butt. I was willing to spend the extra 2k for that extra peace of mind. I would offer the caveat, though, that ABS should not be used as a substitute for good braking technique.
There are some negatives to BMW's EVO ABS system. The maintenance costs are very high, and bleeding the brakes is not a project for the casual do-it-yourselfer. Special equipment is required, and the annual brake service is about $300 at your local dealership. If those noisy motors or any of the ABS system fails after your warranty is over, be prepared to get out your wallet.
Some people find the power-assist ABS to be overly sensitive, especially at low speeds. They are pretty touchy, but I had no problem getting used to them quickly. The touchiness pays off though... the brakes deliver incredible stopping power with very little effort... and I find them very easy to modulate to a smooth stop.
I like the semi-linked design on the Roadster. In an emergency, all you have to do is grab a handful of front brake, and the rear is automatically balanced... Could be a lifesaver when Grandma turns left in front of you. The semi-linked feature give you independent control of the rear brake for low-speed maneuvering.
I worry about the ABS becoming a maintenance problem as the bike gets older. My warranty ends in 2 months, and on top of that, our local dealership in Cincinnati closed last December, so there are few options for getting them worked on. Will dealers still support this unique system 10 years from now? Who knows.
Still, I'm glad I got ABS on my bike. I hope I never have to use it.
--Phil
2004 R1150RA
ABS
Well, to start with I'm glad I have the power assist and ABS on my bike. It's a heavy bike (for me) and she stops like you hit a wall of glue. On the other hand there's the issue of the grabbiness at parking lot speeds. I almost always caution myself as I get to the sub-seven MPH range to only use the rear brake.
One dealer I went to made the point that someday in the future that big, sealed, expensive, hydraulic brick under the gas tank may become a liability. How many service locations are going to keep something that expensive in inventory if they don't have to. How many were produced at the time, what's their shelf life, and how difficult would it be to start up production on a small demand item like that? Your average brake shop won't be able to help you when it finally does decide to give up the ghost.
Note I said "sealed". at least on my bike all the screws are a sort of security screw and tamper painted with white sealant. I doubt they're designed to be rebuildable.
One dealer I went to made the point that someday in the future that big, sealed, expensive, hydraulic brick under the gas tank may become a liability. How many service locations are going to keep something that expensive in inventory if they don't have to. How many were produced at the time, what's their shelf life, and how difficult would it be to start up production on a small demand item like that? Your average brake shop won't be able to help you when it finally does decide to give up the ghost.
Note I said "sealed". at least on my bike all the screws are a sort of security screw and tamper painted with white sealant. I doubt they're designed to be rebuildable.
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MikeCam
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Had both
Had both. Flip a coin.
If you really think your skills are flat, then ABS can be a significant marginal life saver - literally.
If you think your skills are good and constantly improving you can forego ABS and rely on reflex and feel for front braking.
I think the down the road repair cost for an older ABS pump unit will catch many people out. But that is not anti-ABS.
I thiink this thread has remained civil for far too long. I'm not used to that.
If you really think your skills are flat, then ABS can be a significant marginal life saver - literally.
If you think your skills are good and constantly improving you can forego ABS and rely on reflex and feel for front braking.
I think the down the road repair cost for an older ABS pump unit will catch many people out. But that is not anti-ABS.
I thiink this thread has remained civil for far too long. I'm not used to that.
The Older I Get, The Less I Know.
If you ride/commute in all weather, it may be worth it. I currently have ABS (with the servo assist) on mine and while it's been nice, I'm not sure I would get it again. I'm looking at long term maintenance costs, along with the eerie feeling when it kicks in unexpectly if you hit a bump while 'gently' braking. I do commute in all weather and it's nice to know that in the rain I can grab as much brake as I want, but it won't help you when you're too hot in a turn, and other situations. It is getting more common in the motorcycle world so maybe the benefits are there.
Yes, this can be a heated debate with certain board members, and you won't offend me by your views. My feeling: To each, his own.
$.02
Yes, this can be a heated debate with certain board members, and you won't offend me by your views. My feeling: To each, his own.
$.02
John
Member 293 (I think)
'17 Triumph Tiger 1200 XRX
Member 293 (I think)
'17 Triumph Tiger 1200 XRX
I have ABS as well. Personally, I think ABS is a good choice for street riding. The problems I have with BMW's implementation of ABS are two things; servo assist, and complexity.
Servo assist seems to take the 'feel' out of braking. One of the most important parts of threshold braking is the ability to 'feel' when the tire begins to 'slip'. Servo assist disconects the rider from that 'feel'.
BMW has chosen to build a complex ABS system. According to BMW, it 'requires' service by a BMW dealer. This appears to be the route BMW is taking to other areas of new models as well. I see that as a negative. I don't want to ride a 'black box'.
Back to the ABS debate; again, for street riding, I like it. I know you can stop faster by true threshold braking. That's great on a race track where there's some control over the quality of the surface you're riding on. But, on the street, the surface you're riding on is an unknown.
Servo assist seems to take the 'feel' out of braking. One of the most important parts of threshold braking is the ability to 'feel' when the tire begins to 'slip'. Servo assist disconects the rider from that 'feel'.
BMW has chosen to build a complex ABS system. According to BMW, it 'requires' service by a BMW dealer. This appears to be the route BMW is taking to other areas of new models as well. I see that as a negative. I don't want to ride a 'black box'.
Back to the ABS debate; again, for street riding, I like it. I know you can stop faster by true threshold braking. That's great on a race track where there's some control over the quality of the surface you're riding on. But, on the street, the surface you're riding on is an unknown.
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dwayne
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I thought I was the only one that rode my bike that far for commiting. How are you liking it for the commute???dnorrell wrote:As a daily commuter (45 miles one way) in Colorado, I can say that they are worth a look. Heck, they saved my life just yesterday. I have had other bikes without and have locked both wheels at times. I doubt I will every go without (at least for my main commuter/travel bike). 2 cents...
'05 R 1150 R Dark Ferro, with blacked out motor Member # 507
I'm pro-ABS
I rode a Honda CBR 600 before my Rockster. Obviously, totally different bikes, but still, I weigh in on the pro ABS camp.
I can really see where they would save my ass in wet or slippery conditions. I'm sure they already have once or twice. When I first got my bike, I rode it in a slick blacktop parking lot in the rain and purposely locked the brakes at a low speed. The ABS kicked in and worked great. I spent some time doing this and getting used to the ABS and it sure made me feel a lot more confident when riding on the street in the wet.
Yeah, maybe they take some of the asthetic "feel" out of it, but let's be honest, this is not a race bike anyway. heated grips, ABS--these are the reasons you ride a BMW.
I can really see where they would save my ass in wet or slippery conditions. I'm sure they already have once or twice. When I first got my bike, I rode it in a slick blacktop parking lot in the rain and purposely locked the brakes at a low speed. The ABS kicked in and worked great. I spent some time doing this and getting used to the ABS and it sure made me feel a lot more confident when riding on the street in the wet.
Yeah, maybe they take some of the asthetic "feel" out of it, but let's be honest, this is not a race bike anyway. heated grips, ABS--these are the reasons you ride a BMW.
2004 R1150R Rockster tigerstripe
I did not mean to open old wounds I am new to this modern cycling stuff and always thought BMW was a good bike (I don't see myself as a harley guy) Im just trying to learn as much as I can before I make a purchase I will keep checking in on this board to gather info and ask questions to help me make a decision Thanks and keep the opinions comming
hirschg
hirschg
Touchy
ABS and the killswitch: topics that have survived this board over three generations.
LOVE the notion of ABS for bikes like the R1150R.
HATE the Evo power-assist ABS implementation.
Our '02 Roadster has some of the best (non-ABS) brakes of any bike I've ridden; our '04 Rockster's power-ABS stops the bike "yesterday", but lacks feel & finesse. When the warranty's expired, I'll likely downgrade via removal of the Evo system.
Haven't ridden the R1200S yet, but am hopeful its ABS system retains safety benefits while removing the Evo problems (complexity, weight, cost, intrusiveness, linked-system, maintenance costs).
Mark
Oregon
LOVE the notion of ABS for bikes like the R1150R.
HATE the Evo power-assist ABS implementation.
Our '02 Roadster has some of the best (non-ABS) brakes of any bike I've ridden; our '04 Rockster's power-ABS stops the bike "yesterday", but lacks feel & finesse. When the warranty's expired, I'll likely downgrade via removal of the Evo system.
Haven't ridden the R1200S yet, but am hopeful its ABS system retains safety benefits while removing the Evo problems (complexity, weight, cost, intrusiveness, linked-system, maintenance costs).
Mark
Oregon
ABS Brakes
I recently bought a brand new 2005 R1150R with ABS from the showroom floor. I have never experienced a set of brakes like them. Unbelievably strong and a extra margin of comfort when you are concerned.
For instance, my first foul weather trip revealed that my old riding gloves with the now porous rain covers were sopping wet and about two pounds of mush on my hands. They were the only gloves that I had and so I pulled off the highway to wring them out and get a coffee.
As I was braking, the ABS kicked in over some slick suface irregularity that I didn't see and stopped me in one piece. I hadn't even put on 1000km/600 miles yet. Although I am not sure if I would have dumped the bike if it was not ABS equipped, it sure was a nice surprise to have it work so well.
Although I have been riding for over thirty odd years I know that I don't have the riding skills that others have, such as people who race on the tracks and push things to the limit. Plus, I'm not 21 anymore so the reaction time isn't what it used to be.
Frankly, I am glad that my new bike has them and don't care how much it costs to buy or replace or service them. I probably saved a couple of thousand dollars in repairs that day in new bags, guards etc. never mind the skinned knees and bruised ego!
By the way, this is my second BMW bike. I bought my first, an R75/5 thirty years ago and figured that it was time for a new BMW. They look pretty funky parked beside each other.
My suggestion is to get a bike with the ABS brakes for peace of mind. The R1150R is a surprisingly quick motorbike and comfortable to ride at beyond the posted limits here in Canada and probably anywhere else.
For instance, my first foul weather trip revealed that my old riding gloves with the now porous rain covers were sopping wet and about two pounds of mush on my hands. They were the only gloves that I had and so I pulled off the highway to wring them out and get a coffee.
As I was braking, the ABS kicked in over some slick suface irregularity that I didn't see and stopped me in one piece. I hadn't even put on 1000km/600 miles yet. Although I am not sure if I would have dumped the bike if it was not ABS equipped, it sure was a nice surprise to have it work so well.
Although I have been riding for over thirty odd years I know that I don't have the riding skills that others have, such as people who race on the tracks and push things to the limit. Plus, I'm not 21 anymore so the reaction time isn't what it used to be.
Frankly, I am glad that my new bike has them and don't care how much it costs to buy or replace or service them. I probably saved a couple of thousand dollars in repairs that day in new bags, guards etc. never mind the skinned knees and bruised ego!
By the way, this is my second BMW bike. I bought my first, an R75/5 thirty years ago and figured that it was time for a new BMW. They look pretty funky parked beside each other.
My suggestion is to get a bike with the ABS brakes for peace of mind. The R1150R is a surprisingly quick motorbike and comfortable to ride at beyond the posted limits here in Canada and probably anywhere else.