Police M/C--BMW vs HD

Post by **towerworker** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:55 pm

Had an interesting but disappointing conversation yesterday with the Spotsylvania County Va sheriff. I was in his county doing some work and our conversation at one point led to talking of motorcycles. He told me the county has 4 BMW's and they are planning to replace them with HD's this year due to excessive maintenance costs compared to the Harley's they have. He said it seems one is always in the shop and they almost always have repair bills of over $2500 each time. He told me they have had clutch problems with all of them. Granted the bikes probably get some hard usage but they feel the HD's have been much more reliable and less expensive to maintain. Not very encouraging.

Wayne
03 r

R4R&R · Post by **R4R&R** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:00 pm

I know in the past, HD has lost a lot of sales to BMW due to the ABS option not being available. I guess the PD's favor ABS on a bike and BMW offered the only tried and trus ABS. When HD realized that they decided to offer ABS on their police only models (not to the general public). I would imagine the overall cost of paying a dealer to maintain a bike is higher with the BMW, and since HD is offering ABS.....you know how that goes.

I have to say I don't dis-like HD, only the poseur riders that buy the optional attitudes.

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:42 pm

In owning both brands, I can tell you the HD is a LOT simpler. This has something I'm sure to do with the BMWs requiring more maintenance. My HD is too new for me to judge reliability, but neither have let me down yet. My 4.5 year old Suzuki has had no problems either.

GeoffJ · Post by **GeoffJ** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:11 pm

I agree with the post above. I own a BMW and HD. Both bikes are great bikes; however, my BMW is more much expensive to maintain due to the cost of service parts. Despite the BMW's advantages in handling and performance, it's easy to understand why police departments (PDs) are moving away from them.

Another reason PDs buy Harleys is the lease arrangements they get through HD dealers. In some instances, PDs can lease new HDs for as little as $1 a month. Example: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/0 ... nes10.html

The HD is a good PR tool. Adults and children alike are always attracted to the police motorcycle. An article I saw in Cycle World said people are more likely to engage a conversation with a cop if he's on an HD.

Post by **HiOSilver** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:40 am

I don't think I'd write BMW off as a supplier of PD equipment just yet, no matter how much you like HD. I live in Arizona and the cities here around Phoenix seem like they are all switching to BMW. At the Scottsdale dealership they can't get the new PD bikes out of the crates fast enough. We are talking about hundreds of new bikes! I have been told that Scottdale is swiching, as is Gilbert, Chandler, Pioria, Glendale and Phoenix itself. It doesn't look like BMW has had to resort to marketing gimmicks to move the bikes either (ala $1 leases).

Arizona may be an exception - I know that the oil cooled boxers tolerate the heat out here as well as, or better than anything else on the road.

GeoffJ · Post by **GeoffJ** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:56 am

Some police departments in the Chicago and suburban areas use BMW's but the majority use Harleys. The $1 lease programs are underwritten by individual HD dealers, not the parent company.

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:10 am

Food for thought - I know the new BMW boxers have lower gearing, so this I imagine makes cops much happier than the 1150 gearing. If I was a bike cop and spent a lot of time having to ride at near-walking speeds, I'd prefer my Harley for lower center of gravity and gearing over my Roadster.

On the other hand, if I had to spend a lot of time at interstate speeds, I'd definitely prefer my Roadster.

ride1150r · Post by **ride1150r** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:02 pm

I also own both, my Harley is an 05 electraglide and the bmw is an 04 r1100s. The Harley has been in the shop 5 times and I had to spend almost $700.00 to get is to run right even though it was under warrantee. The bmw has been in the shop once for a loose lens on my mirror. You do the math.

Scott

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:16 pm

Scott - just curious, what are the symptoms of your Electraglide's problem? Sounds like the problem might be more with your mechanic than your bike. Either that or you've spent money on aftermarket parts to remedy what ails your bike.

The FI on my Dyna is better sorted out than my Roadster, which shows mild hints of surging when I've ridden it about 5k after the last TB adjust. Not trying to defend HD here; just stating the facts of my experience.

Knock on wood, but my Roadster has been perfect over the past 35k miles through 12 states from Florida to New York and nearly 4 years of ownership. Only issue was having to replace a weeping seal in the drive shaft coupling at the rear wheel.

GeoffJ · Post by **GeoffJ** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:27 pm

ride1150r wrote:I also own both, my Harley is an 05 electraglide and the bmw is an 04 r1100s. The Harley has been in the shop 5 times and I had to spend almost $700.00 to get is to run right even though it was under warrantee. The bmw has been in the shop once for a loose lens on my mirror. You do the math. Scott

Scott, I had the opposite experience. Before moving to an '05 Electra Glide, I rode an '02 BMW K1200RS (see below). The bike never left me stranded at roadside, but it did have some problems. Most notable was a leaky timing cover on the front of the engine and a faulty rear brake caliper. Both were repaired under warranty. My K1200RS also had numerous recalls.

My '96 R1100R has been bulletproof. With the exception of EFI surging, which I've learned to accept, I really haven't had any problems that require dealer service.

If I was a cop I'd prefer a BMW. They are lighter, easier to maneuver, and the ABS brakes can save lives.

T97 · Post by **T97** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:39 pm

Those $1 lease deals are drying up real fast and as far as the maintenance goes, Harley is requiring the bike be brought in at 2,000 mile intervals as compared to the BMW 5,000 or 6,000 mile interval.

Wass · Post by **Wass** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:08 pm

Seems to me spare parts costs would make the european bikes prohibitive to PD's that really watch costs. With BMW parts being mostly German, the initial high cost of the part plus the Euro rate makes the parts cost more than they would if manufactured elsewhere.
What costs more - a HD brake rotor or a BMW one? Pads? Electrical components? Or how about the required 12,000 mile service?
This stuff adds up.

Airman · Post by **Airman** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:58 am

I had a chat with a Washngton State Patrol officer. They have R1150RT's. He first said he hated the bike, but then modified that. It was actually the dealer service he hated. He said that because the bikes were bought on a contract, not from the local dealers, the HP got poor service from the dealers. Ride west and South Sound both had his bike in and he was not happy with it. Neither was he happy with the dealer in Post Falls ID. His bike had a stalling problem that they were't fixing. He said the HP was considering a change, perhaps to a Honda ST1300. At least, he says, there's a dealer on every corner for Hondas. The Honda might be competition for BMW, I don't think HD is. The HP is up on I-5 chasing people at speed. This guy said his usual method was accellerating from 0-100 mph to catch the speeder. I wonder how comfy the big HD is over 100 ?

Hoop50 · Post by **Hoop50** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:38 am

They ride HD cop bikes here in my little burg. Kind of strange how it came about.

I live in a very small, but extremely touristy town of under 1000 people. Three Lakes Wisconsin The police department has a total of 6 people, not all are full time. Up until 2 years ago, they had NO motorcycles for the police dept.
The police chief lives on the same country road as I do, and I know him well. He told me they found out about the $1/year plan to get motorcycles from HD. The bikes are used until October or November (it is Northern Wisconsin) and then returned to the dealership. Most bikes maintenance consists of getting the 1000 mile checkup and an oil change or two, which they do at the town shop.
The next year, the cops get another brand spankin new bike in May to use for the summer season.

The Three Lakes police department uses the bike very little. They put on between 2000 - 4000 miles per year.

I went with a buddy of mine to a HD dealership in Wausau the day he was going to pick up his new bike (another story, but the dealership already sold his bike 2 days earlier). They had 2 of the year old used cop bikes for sale in the showroom. $15000 each. 1 of the bikes had 2400 miles on it and the other bike had 3800 miles on it.

There is no way BMW could compete against HD in Wisconsin, as I believe the $1/year program is in effect throughout the state. Given that the bikes are "traded" in every year, and mileage put on the bike is minimal, maintenance is not an issue.

An interesting side story about Harley cop bikes. I used to live in Milwaukee in the mid 70's early 80's and the police force used LOTS of Harleys. They would periodically auction off old worn out bikes (100,000+ miles). This was well before the powers that be at Harley discovered people want to RIDE bikes, not continuously wrench on them. The bikes invariably sold for several hundred dollar less than the price of a new bike!!!!!!!
My first experience with motorcycles came as a youngster of maybe 10 years old. One of our neighbors on the lake had a 3 wheeled "motor maid" Harley trike. He was riding it out on the frozen ice in december. We were out on the ice skating. He came by & gave my brothers & I short rides. I've been hooked ever since.

GeoffJ · Post by **GeoffJ** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:51 pm

T97 wrote:Those $1 lease deals are drying up real fast and as far as the maintenance goes, Harley is requiring the bike be brought in at 2,000 mile intervals as compared to the BMW 5,000 or 6,000 mile interval.

My 2005 Harley has a 5000-mile service interval.

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:04 pm

I'm echoing GeoffJ's comment. I gotta tell ya. With hydraulically self-adjusting valves and the same lube for everything, the only thing you have to worry about is adjusting the drive belt once in a blue moon. These things could not be simpler to maintain.

T97 · Post by **T97** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:22 pm

Geoff,

I am certain the civilian model has the interal you described, but the police version specifically calls for 2,000 mile maintenance time periods.

I recently finished a complete price break down comparison between the Eletra Glide and the BMW.

Harley leaves all police mc sales decisions up to the individual dealers. Whoever is in your area is who you'll be dealing with. A few years back there were numerous, lucrative deals being offered to the police, but MANY are going by the wayside. The market is becoming saturated and dealers aren't willing to overstock their inventories with PD cycles.

Our dealer had a nice program. You buy the cycle and every 24 months you get a new one. You are required to have all service done by them at their time table, furthermore you have to pay an incremental increase in cost of the new cycle over the old one (generally 2.5% of base price). In addition to this cost you have to pay for 16 hours shop rate to have the emergency equipment changed over and any damage incurred during the 24 month period will also have to be paid for (labor and parts).

When you added the costs up (especially the 2,000 mile interval) with an expected service life of 5-6 years or 60,000 miles the "hidden" costs of the Harley became too prohibative.

I love MC's and would gladly ride either one, but I have a hard time recommending a motorcycle that I truly believe is not as good as the BMW and cost significantly more to operate.

I hope I'm not proven wrong.

GeoffJ · Post by **GeoffJ** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:31 am

T97, you're right. The $1 HD police bike leases are going away because demand for HDs has slowed. The used market is saturated with clean, low mileage HDs, especially '03 anniversary models.

How much does it cost to lease a BMW? A higher lease rate coupled with scheduled maintenance costs might make the HD more favorable, even with its hidden operating costs.

T97 · Post by **T97** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:27 pm

Leasing was not considered when I compared the prices. It was a purchase deal, either the Harley or the BMW.

The RETAIL purchase price of the BMW was approximately 2 g's less than the Harley. Our department was looking at the 5-6 year life span which is close to the time period we would need to hold on to a vehicle to consider it a capital improvement.

I gave a lot of consideration to the fact that the BMW should last the 5-6 years needed, factoring about 10,000 miles per year. (no highway patrol, mostly busy suburban areas)

Post by **sjbmw** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:29 am

BMW donated a Police bike to the Philadelphia Police dept, a notorius HD stronghold, with York Pa not too far away.