Diagno$i$?

[garr2]

Today I took my wife out on the bike for her first ride in 6 months and this happened -





Had the bike trailered home and it's in the shed awaiting closer inspection.

Immediately before we pulled off the road we heard/felt a low level grinding/pulsing vibration, followed by a vagueness in the rear wheel similar to a deflating tyre.
On inspection we saw oil dripping from the bottom of the final drive. The pool of oil that accumulated on the rim appeared to contain a fine, sparkly sediment.
There is no movement in the wheel in the 3/9 or 6/12position.

Anyone like to offer a diagno$i$?

Ian

[sweatmark]

Final drive's ring gear ball bearing failure, due to incorrect assembly shimming and poor BMW quality control.
http://www.bmwra.org/otl/finaldrive/
Bearing shrapnel compromises seal... look familiar?


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263830


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87214


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163776

Good reading within each of these ADV topics.

[garr2]

Final drive's ring gear ball bearing failure, due to incorrect assembly shimming and poor BMW quality control.
http://www.bmwra.org/otl/finaldrive/
Bearing shrapnel compromises seal... look familiar?

Thanks sweatmark for your thorough reply.
That's what I was afraid of.
It's another couple of weeks before I can get my local (100 km away) BMW shop to even have a look at it.
In the mean time I can move from Stage 1 - Diagnosis, to Stage 2 - Sticker shock.
Because in Australia we seem to have our own (extortionate) way of charging for BMW parts & repairs, I will have to direct this next question to my mates down here.
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has had a BMW R1150 final drive repair done at a BMW shop in the last few years.
I realise there are many variables involved here but how much did your final drive repair cost?

Ian

[garr2]

OK - this is where I'm up to.
I have to decide whether to take the bike with its busted final drive 100 km into the BMW dealership & get them to quote on its repair. I'm thinking the dismantling required to get to the point of being able to provide quote is going to cost me $X.

Alternatively I could buy a used final drive in very good condition and swap it out. There are obviously costs involved here too including freight, and tools I don't currently have eg heat gun & infrared thermometer. There is also the question of whether my modest but improving mechanical skills could do the swap.

I still don't have any idea how much a final drive dealership repair in ANY country has cost - information from anyone ANYWHERE would be appreciated.

Secondly I'm unsure how difficult removing the old final drive and replacing it with a (near) new one would be.

What do you think?

[NoRRmad]

I once rode a failing final drive four hundred miles to a rally. Towards the end, I was too scared by the wonky steering to exceed 35 MPH. I didn't know what was wrong, and I knew that there was a BMW dealer at the rally, but on seeing the state of the innards of the unit... I was an idiot to do that.

Luckily, the dealer was able to find a used unit, and replaced it for a total of $450, before the rally ended. I think I was lucky to have made it, and lucky on the price.

[sweatmark]

OK - this is where I'm up to.
I have to decide whether to take the bike with its busted final drive 100 km into the BMW dealership & get them to quote on its repair. I'm thinking the dismantling required to get to the point of being able to provide quote is going to cost me $X.

Alternatively I could buy a used final drive in very good condition and swap it out. There are obviously costs involved here too including freight, and tools I don't currently have eg heat gun & infrared thermometer. There is also the question of whether my modest but improving mechanical skills could do the swap.

I still don't have any idea how much a final drive dealership repair in ANY country has cost - information from anyone ANYWHERE would be appreciated.

Secondly I'm unsure how difficult removing the old final drive and replacing it with a (near) new one would be.

What do you think?

I think you need to read those ADV topics posted above. One of those threads shows a field repair for R1150** final drive that's likely applicable to your situation. No final drive removal required, and the cost (if your drive failure is similar) is limited to replacement ball bearing and final drive output seal. It's DIY in the comfort of your garage/shed/living room:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=18
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=22

Note that such a repair would re-use the original shim, and thus a bad original shim thickness might still cause bearing trouble well down the road... but you can get the bike rolling again for now.

[garr2]

Thanks NoRRmad & sweatmark (again) for taking time to reply.
Sweatmark, I have looked at the Advrider roadside repair and am unsure that my final drive failure is similar to the one shown. That's just one of the 'known unknowns' I'm trying to get my head around at the moment.

NoRRmad, I take it the used final drive you fitted has given good service.

Any other experiences replacing or repairing R1150 final drives out there?

[NoRRmad]

My final drive replacement happened at 32,000 miles, and I now have 54,000 miles on the bike. The used unit was of unknown provenance, but has so far worked jus' fine. I do keep an eye on it, though...

[sweatmark]

Sweatmark, I have looked at the Advrider roadside repair and am unsure that my final drive failure is similar to the one shown. That's just one of the 'known unknowns' I'm trying to get my head around at the moment.

The R1150** bikes have similar final drives. Even though the drive case shapes differ a bit between R1150R/R1150RT/R1150GS, the internals are similar. The repair process shown within those ADV posts would apply

The final drive doesn't puke oil unless the seal is compromised. And the seal doesn't commonly fail unless that big ball bearing self-destructs.

If the DIY repair is not your first choice, then you might opt to follow the initial disassembly steps and remove the crown wheel/ball bearing/seal assembly to see what's happened... bringing just that portion of the final drive to your dealer for parts replacement would save money versus bike transport.

FWIW - my dealer is also 100km/60miles from home.

[Boxer]

If you have a friend or neighbor nearby who has some mechanical skills and a few tools, you can follow the manual to remove the final drive assembly pretty easily. That alone will save you a bundle if you just take that to the dealer for repair.

[towerworker]

FWIW--My FD is still going strong these past two years.


...............of course I haven't ridden it in nearly two years either. I reckon that may have something to do with it.

[fpgirard]

don't be intimidated by removing the FD. I had to do mine since the rubber boot was shredded so I wound up greasing the FD spline and doing some other minor work.

An infrared thermometer is cheap - about 30 bucks - and a huge help. I wrote up my notes at:

http://www.milzman.com/Site/Blog/Entrie ... ation.html

pascal

[garr2]

fpgirard
Thanks for your post. I had a quick look at it as well as the other posts/sites it directed me to. A great collection - including photos. I'm a visual kind of guy.
After having a chance to have a good look I will be in a better position to decide what to do.
At this stage though it's looking less intimidating.
For anyone else in my position I would also recommend this video 'how to' - http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv
Thanks again,

Ian

[sweatmark]

Final drive failures for BMW Paralever bikes. Crossposting from ADVrider/BARF/Iron Butt:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forum ... p?t=392228

From NHTSA site:

NHTSA Action Number : DP12001 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A
Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
BMW / K1200 LT 2005
BMW / K1200LT 1999-2004 9999
Manufacturer : BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC
Component(s) :
POWER TRAIN:DRIVELINE:DIFFERENTIAL UNIT
Date Investigation Opened : January 20, 2012
Date Investigation Closed : Open
Summary:
By letter dated 11-28-2011, Christopher D. Cimino of Edmunds, WA, requested that NHTSA "open an investigation into the repeated final drive bearing failure and possibly flawed assembly controls of the final drive unit on BMW K1200LT models..." NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) is opening this investigation to examine Mr. Cimino's allegations and determine whether a safety-related defect trend currently exists involving final drive crown gear ball-bearing assembly failures on the subject motorcycles. The ODI report cited above can be reviewed at www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints under the following identification (ODI) number: 10439549

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/results.cfm

Use "10439549" as search criterion.

[MIXR]

Aussie costs.

Just been through this. I picked up a second hand drive with 100,000 kms for $250. Works fine and easy to replace. Had the stuffed drive rebuilt by Mick Owen for $415.

Biggest issue is whether you stopped any damage to the gears. Mine was shimmed too tight originally. Done properly, it will all be remeasured anyway.

Far cheaper if you can remove and refit yourself, and just get the rebuild done. Major cost is the bearings. There is little labour involved, relatively speaking. I didn't have the tools to do the shim work, and cost wasn't excessive, so I had it done. The rebuilt unit is now my spare. No idea how long the second hand unit will last.

If you go secondhand:

All R1150 rear drives should be interchangeable. The GS ones have the extra machined holes for the rear mudguard. The GSA (and possibly the GS) has a keyed spline, so you need to ensure any second hand unit has the correct un-keyed spline for the R, or re-use the old one.

Some have the ABS fittings, some don't. Bear that in mind. If the bike is non-ABS like mine, you just ziptie the cable out of the way if the unit is ABS.

Good luck, and feel free to contact me if you need help. Tools are few and simple for the R & R.

Cheers, Mick.

[garr2]

MIXR,
Thanks for the offer of help.
I have learnt a lot reading your and other posts. As many have said before, there is a wealth of experience and information - generously given - out there.
I now have a pretty good picture in my mind of what the repair involves.
Having said that though I am taking the easy way out and getting the local(?) BMW dealer in Wollongong to do the work.
The clincher was the vision of my SO's glare as we examined our second final drive failure somewhere between Hay and Broken Hill later this year. Scary!
When the job is finished I'll post the cost so that other Australians who come after me - and sadly there will be others - have some idea of the cost of a dealer repair.

Ian

[garr2]

Bike is 2004 model and has done 112000 km.

Final drive repair done at local BMW dealership:
4 hours labour
1 crown gear roller bearing
1 seal
.3L gear oil

Total cost - A$643, which at current exchange rates is -
US$690, Euro522, GBP436.

Repair has 3 months warranty on workmanship & 12 months on parts.

I am looking at upgrading to a 2010 RT. Are they having final drive problems?

[garr2]

Total cost - A$643, which at current exchange rates is -
US$690, Euro522, GBP436.

The financial damage has been done and is sitting there on the credit card, but it would still be interesting to get some international comparison between a crown gear bearing & seal replacement in Australia compared to other countries.
How much did this same job cost elsewhere?

[MattPie]

Aussie costs.
All R1150 rear drives should be interchangeable. The GS ones have the extra machined holes for the rear mudguard. The GSA (and possibly the GS) has a keyed spline, so you need to ensure any second hand unit has the correct un-keyed spline for the R, or re-use the old one.

Some models have different final drive ratios, just be warned. I think the GS adventure is lower, and the RTs have a slightly higher than the R/RS/RT-P.

http://bmwdean.com/rtp5.htm
(about 2/3s down)

[garr2]

Update

6 months and 7000 km after having the crown gear bearing & seal replaced in my final drive I changed the final drive oil yesterday to find this -





There were courser metal filings on the magnetic drain plug and finer particles suspended in the oil.
I have kept a sample of the oil, the tissue on which I wiped the courser filings from around the drain plug and photos of both.

The BMW dealership that did the repair has booked the bike in for a look. At the time the repair was done the dealership said there was a 3 month warranty on workmanship and 12 months on parts.

The bike has done 120000 km. What are the chances that the crown gear bearing and seal repair was good but some other part in the final drive has now failed?
Is this a case of a bad repair of am I just unlucky?

Ian