CeeBaileys needs our help, there is a big payoff for all

[xprof]

Today I rode 2hrs south to visit Joe at Cee Bailey’s. As you all know, I have achieved airflow perfection to my satisfaction with a CalSci XL ordered and delivered with no holes at all. I then drilled mounting holes 2” lower, to give me a taller shield, and I mounted it severely raked back with a (modified) Don C block, and added SAENG swirl edging. Joe rode it, and he was impressed. For me, at least, it is perfect, and he quite agreed.

Then Joe told me why it wouldn’t be perfect for everyone: I have long arms and bar-backs, and for a shorter-armed person with standard bars the top edge of the shield would be in his teeth. One size does not necessarily fit all, for sure! Joe has to make a design for everyman. And he is working on it doggedly, tweaking the design this way and that almost daily. He hopes to have it ready for sale in January.

I toured the Cee Bailey facility with Joe, and it is impressive. They cut their shields out of absolutely huge stock (so they can make a shield practically any size) on a CNC machine, drill the mounting holes, then place the flat blanks in a 300° oven. They come out as limp as pizza dough! The hot, limp shield blank is then placed on a shaped form and hand-smoothed down by 4 or 5 techs with cloth gloves as it is clamped. As it cools it hardens into that shape. This allows virtually any curve in any direction, and combinations of curves as well. They then polish the edges to glass-like perfection. Joe showed me on my shield how a slightly rough edge will concentrate stresses, leading eventually to a stress crack, which has happened on every one of my previous shields. Then they have 3 techs whose job is to polish the shield for hours with fine polishing mud. Their build quality is just fantastic, which isn’t surprising since many of their products have to meet FAA certification standards and inspections.

As I watched they cooked and shaped a test shield, then immediately mounted it on Daveyator’s loaner R1200R and took off on a test ride. We will know in a couple of weeks Dave’s opinion of the final result. It looked very good to me, but I don’t think the rake angle will be quite sufficient for me (long arms and all). We will see fairly soon. No reason, though, I couldn’t add spacers to taste, or ape hangers…

Before I left, Joe dismounted my old shield, cleaned out the mounting holes with a tap to discourage cross-threading, replaced all the rubber grommets, then re-mounted my shield and torqued it down just right. This was true concierge service, by a truly dedicated guy. And he’s got so much faith in the R1200R that he has ordered fifty (50!!!) of the new 2011 brackets, so that he can sell the shield with the bracket already mounted. He says he’ll be passing the brackets on at cost, too!

Looks like the R1200R community will soon have an excellent product to add to our choices. Are you ready for yet another shield, Don?

[daveyator]

And I'm one picky SOB too........lol! but I'm hopeful the new shield will be right for most of us.

[deilenberger]

Before I left, Joe dismounted my old shield, cleaned out the mounting holes with a tap to discourage cross-threading, replaced all the rubber grommets, then re-mounted my shield and torqued it down just right. This was true concierge service, by a truly dedicated guy. And he’s got so much faith in the R1200R that he has ordered fifty (50!!!) of the new 2011 brackets, so that he can sell the shield with the bracket already mounted. He says he’ll be passing the brackets on at cost, too!

Looks like the R1200R community will soon have an excellent product to add to our choices. Are you ready for yet another shield, Don?

I'm always ready for another shield.. I think I might even have some space on the shelf to store the current one..

I'm impressed he took the trouble to clean up the CalSci screen for you. Sounds like a very dedicated guy. Plus buying the 2011 brackets? How cool is that - one source for something that works. Beats a sharp stick in the eye every day!

[psycle.vt]

I'm really looking forward the final product. I am reasonably happy with the CalSci screen on my 09, but my wife's 2012 R1200R (RED, best color) is in need of a screen and she really doesn't want one as tall as mine. Surprisingly the new instrument cluster does a much better job breaking the wind even as a naked bike - at least up to legal highway speeds, but a bit more protection might be just what she needs.

Cy/VT
09 R1200R - the new PSYCLE (his)
12 R1200R - Red - (hers)

[daveyator]

Hello all
Another Cee Baileys windshield update. I figured I'd just post his email which sums up whats going on:


"Dave,

Just wanted to drop you a note on where were at right now. Were non operational until 1-3-2011 due to lack of sales (seasonal) and the big boss shut it down. I’ve tried several different designs, four different molds and every configuration you could possibly think of and only one shield that sufficed at hwy speeds. It performs much better than our existing design but after 70 mph all bets are off. We have the sport shield dialed in for the sports bracket and it looks really nice. I’m still tinkering with the full sized shield and have a few more tweaks and it should be good by next weeks end.

After that we’ll be making another mold for the full size shield that will incorporate built in lowers (snow mobile style). The lower air turbulence is a major issue for this application so hopefully the built in wings will alos improve the upper turbulence but only a finished product will tell. I know I’m running well past the estimated time frame and progress has been lethargic due to the holidays and limited operational hours. On a personal note I can’t thank you enough and really appreciate your assistance in this endeavor. In reality I’ll be done no later than 1-20 and hopefully a week sooner. I had to put double the miles than originally anticipated due the all the road tests but I can assure you that the bike is being well taken care of under my close attention. I don’t know when you last had it serviced but if it needs a service let me know and I’ll be happy to send it out to my local BMW dealer.

I apologize for the delay and any inconvenience that this may cause. If this creates any issues don’t hesitate to let me know but when its all said and done it should be well worth the wait. As a gesture of good will I’m going to see if I can sweeten the pot for all your generosity and the entire R1200R community as well.

Blue Skies
&
Soft Landings

Happy New Year

Joe & Staff"



I'll add my Happy New Year to all also
Dave

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

This is really fun to watch the development work as it happens. Does anyone know what he means by "snow mobile style"?

[Chumley]

I wonder if the "snowmobile" reference is about having the windscreen include extensions to also cover the handgrips.

Knowing that there is a good chance that there is a screen that will work up to 70 mph for most of us is great news.

I can't believe how much effort has gone into this particular set of screens. I guess this explains why nothing has really worked up to date without some kind of add on.

I hope that CB makes back the investment put into this screen. If it works it will be the only one that does right out of the box. This is the last bit I need before I consider my Roadster truly touring worthy.

[objectuser]

I wonder if the "snowmobile" reference is about having the windscreen include extensions to also cover the handgrips.

That would be pretty odd wouldn't it? Not that I have a better guess than you. Hope that's not it though.

Anyway, if it's much better than the current Cee Bailey's, I'll sell mine and contribute to them recouping their investment. The current one works okay, and I'm sure it will work much better with Don's block (have yet to install it), but I'd like a better overall solution without needing the block.

Anyway, good stuff, looking forward to seeing it.

[xprof]

According to what Joe told me, that's exactly what he meant by "snowmobile" style. This would be an option, of course, only for those who want it.

And I expect that the Don C block will be quite a bit too thick to use with the new Cee Bailey screen, but I don't rule out putting maybe 1/2" or 3/4" spacers under the lower mount. Unless Don C wants to retool for the new screen!

[parkec]

Whoa.

Does this mean all of us w/ a Cee Baileys can trade ours in for a new one - just paying postage? Cause I have to tell you, mine buffets, the Don C Block helps but my screen vibrates cause the lower mount is not very support of.

btw if I had to do it again, I would but another brand. And just might do so in the next week or so and but my standard fly screen on and e bay the Baileys.

[objectuser]

I can't imagine them running any sort of "special" like that. Sounds like a logistical nightmare to me.

This is the first I've heard of the lower mount not holding the screen as well after the block is installed. I wonder if your case is unique or uncommon.

I've also not read that any other brands are consistently reported to have lower buffeting qualities than the Cee Baileys; just that they all work better with the block.

[xprof]

Does this mean all of us w/ a Cee Baileys can trade ours in for a new one - just paying postage?

Parkec: Where did you get this idea? Not from anything I posted, I hope.

This is the first I've heard of the lower mount not holding the screen as well after the block is installed. I wonder if your case is unique or uncommon.

Objectuser: When I installed the Don C block the lower mount connection became unstable, and would unhook at about 100mph. I removed the hook, inverted it, drilled and tapped 2 new holes, and re-applied it. Problem solved.

[objectuser]

Objectuser: When I installed the Don C block the lower mount connection became unstable, and would unhook at about 100mph. I removed the hook, inverted it, drilled and tapped 2 new holes, and re-applied it. Problem solved.

Very interesting (and unfortunate!). Maybe this is what Don was talking about when he mentioned to me that if you bend the arms of the windshield mount yourself, instead of just tightening the screen down onto the bike and letting that process bend it, you end up with a more stable screen.



This is another reason I don't like to do these things myself!

Edit: This is exactly what he was saying. +1 for Don C's clever approach and wise guidance.

[Don C]

This is the first I've heard of the lower mount not holding the screen as well after the block is installed. I wonder if your case is unique or uncommon.

This is what the bracket bending is all about. I tried to make sure that everyone was notified about the need for bending the bracket before buying the block, but it's possible that I missed someone. I didn't want people installing the blocks without bending the bracket but some people just hated the idea. I've explained to a few that the steel bracket could probably be bent a hundred times without breaking, and that bending the steel is how it was made in the first place.
It sounds like the new Cee baileys screen is intended to solve the same problems that are addressed by installing the block. I suspect that it will be molded with enough curvature to have a similar slope at the top as we are creating by putting the block at the bottom. Then we'll all bend our brackets back to where they used to be, put the new screen on, chuck the old blocks in the trash, and we'll all be riding happily ever after in comfort and silence. If not, making thinner blocks for the 2007-10 bikes would be easy. If appearance is not a big issue, try a few washers until you're happy. And as Don E has explained to us, changing the tilt of the new 2011 screens is quite simple as well.

[objectuser]

Using Don C's advice here, I was able to bend the arms and install the block. There is still some daylight between the bottom of the bracket and the front/center "holder", but it's very small.

I think I also might have slightly bent the main arms of the windshield mount itself, as the screen seemed to not fit quite as well when I remounted it. But if I did, it was only maybe a 1/4". Or so I hope.

So I'll give this a shot tomorrow. It's going to be 71 in Dallas. With that kind of weather it would be just wrong not to have a full day of riding.

[Chumley]

I wouldn't worry about bending the mount like Don said. It is a very mild steel. Mine was bent way out of shape by an errant sea kayak and I easily bent it back into shape.

I was just careful and bent it back little by little. If it is putting too much pressure/tension on the screen it may start sending out stress cracks over time so if you can get it back to proper shape it could be helpful in the long run.

It is nice to know that a modified Don block could exist for that final tweak for those that don't get the results they are looking for with the screen as redesigned by CB.

And also, I have no idea where the thought of getting new screen from CB for just the postage came from but as far as I know that is not being offered.

This is one of the most interesting and fairly interactive product development processes I have ever seen (of course I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of thing). We have a major manufacturer working closely with the users of a product. Gotta thank Joe again.

[objectuser]

Spent most of the day on highways at about 70mph, which is where I like to stay because both the R and my wife's M50 get vibey above 70. At that speed, the shield is now OK. Not great, but not bad either. Some buffeting depending on which way the wind is blowing. So it's not a perfect fix for me, but it's better.

[SDMAX]

I think I've had the Don Block on for about a year. I put a barn door screen on with the Block and it didn't work well:

http://www.parabellum.com/ In 24" height

BUT. . .at the time I did not have the bottom "hook" deal bent to work with the Block. More than 30 days went by and I could not return the screen so it resides with some others in my west coast edition of Eilenberger's screen collection.

So we ( more handy friend and I ) bent the "arms" and got the "hook" to do its job and at the same time installed the tallest California Science windscreen....and that's where I've been for at least a year.

I also tried a 15" Cee B with a Laminar Lip; and I had a local plastics company fabricate something that cracked and didn't work.

Cal Sci has been about where I figured I never do better. Another huge step forward was switching from a Shoei RF1100 size XL to a size L Shoei Quest. With ear plugs I'm good to go with the Quest.

I may try out the Parabellum again but it was no where near as pretty as the Cal Sci and the guy at Parabellum sd they really did not do much R and D on that particular screen. No woof.

I was very new to riding when I wrapped myself to the axles in this windscreen deal. I'm a lot less up tight about it now. I bought a Victory with the usual HD like screen and I just live with it; I also have a Ducati Monster with a screen that basically covers the instruments and it's pretty good with the Quest to 80 mph when it stops being fun.

I've already crapped up the Ducati with a Givi top case so I think I'll leave that windscreen alone.

Sometime in the past year I checked out an RT for 24 hrs from the dealer. Rode it 20 miles and took it back. I'd cranked the electric screen up and had ZERO buffetting and wind issues. It was also like riding in a bad car. If I was doing routine 300 mile plus days that would be the bike. I don't. I do 150 mile days and a lot of that is on slower two lane with only a little slab to the fun stuff and a little slab back.

I will check out the new CB when and if....

YMMV Happy New Year to list. Near 70's on the San Diego coast; I'm riding in the morning....rock on.

[JohnM]

Is this the end result?

http://www.ceebaileys.com/bmw/bmwr1200rss.html

[daveyator]

Is this the end result?

http://www.ceebaileys.com/bmw/bmwr1200rss.html

In a word no. That is the shield Joe has created to work with the BMW sport mount. Its a little taller than the BMW touring shield and offers better protection but is not the all day eventual shield we're waiting for. Its more of a performance oriented shield and offers a genuine workable replacement for that bug deflector that BMW calls the sport shield. Here is a rough side by side of the BMW shield and CBs sport shield. Remember it works with the sport bracket only not the touring one



I stopped by CB's today and chatted with Joe and took these pictures as a kind of sneak peek.





Its still a work in progress but Joe is relentlessly trying to get the best all around shield possible. He is down to dealing with slight (although not terrible) upper helmet buffeting and trying to limit the wind from below. He thinks that open area around the forward tank area creates acute wind from below. The shield pictured actually has more space above the headlight (appeared to be about an inch) than you might at first glance think is ok but it seems that the air flowing through there actually counteracts somewhat the air trying to flow up from that forward tank area. He is also fiddling the the middle width of the shield. You may also notice there isn't the rake that some of us might be hoping for but this shield doesn't seem to need it. Remember he does his testing with an open face helmet so he should be getting a first hand sample of wind off of the windshield. Still a work in progress but nearing completion. From this "all around" shield will come one with better lower protection. He is VERY committed to creating the very best shields possible for the R1200R.