GPS recommendation

[duegi]

I've been using RAM mounts for three years with good luck for mounting goodies on the bars. Mounted via RAM mounts I run a Garmin 60csx, small screen yes but you can change up the screens to what is needed. It also doubles as a speedo when up in the higher reaches and the BMW speedo is doing it's exponential mph misrepresentation. Also mount stop watches and Kenwood thf-6a (radio) when officiating or hauling photographers at bicycle races, triathlons, and marathons. I end up obscuring my view of the speedo but I'm more in need of knowing RPMs. Stalling on a climb is a real treat...Oh the 60csx is waterproof and has a good internal antenna as it's intended purpose is hiking.

[jcridge]

Well, now seems to be a good as time as any to chime in...
I have many miles with Doris ( Garmin 2720), and her insistent and sometimes condescending tone. But wouldn't think of riding without her, until recently. I purchased a Zumo 550 from a fellow inmate and in the process of switching over.

What I like about the Zumo over the 2720

1. Brighter screen
2. left side buttons
3. Fuel gauge
3. odometer
4. Bluetooth to cell
5. Thinner in size
6. MP3
7. Bigger touchscreen buttons
8. On board battery and bike power cradle
9. Still supported by Garmin
10. Memory card
11. Quicker acquisitions, ( might be in part due to new software)

What I don't like about the Zumo ( so far)

1. Uploading Garmin specific vehicle icons, haven't been able to do? Get an error pop-up This isn't a show stopper, but hopefully not a sign of Garmin's lack of detail.
2. The typing mode, what a PITA... it's better then the 2720, but what were they thinking?

Would I pay $800 for a new Zumo, probably not right away, but if something didn't come along I would have eventually. The 2720 is a good GPS, the Zumo just takes what its lacks and builds on it. Most of the problems I hear and have experienced about GPS dislikes, are software related. Garmin can do a much better job with motorcycle specific GPS. They have designed the hardware, they now need to support it with motorcycle specific software. I also have a Garmin 60csx for hiking, there isn't allot of difference in software between all 3 units, so Garmin is not putting forth the effort in software, they are sticking to what works and more importantly what they have the bugs worked out of...

Has anyone successfully integrated the Zumo 550 to a bluetooth cell phone on an Autocom? My Super Pro AVi is hardwired for BTB, GPS, Cell, MP3 and pillion. I cannot get the microphone to work with the Zumo. Top Gear Accessories is working a hardwire solution, but I would really like to hear if there is another work around.

John

[Dr. Strangelove]

The typing mode, what a PITA...

You got that right, Bro
It's at least that and dangerous if you're "typing" while riding. VERY VERY BAD design

and the menus are , well, STUPID

and the price

Damn! is it the "best" one out there?

don't throw away your maps

John

[harveyrawn]

I have many miles with Doris ( Garmin 2720), and her insistent and sometimes condescending tone.

She's on my 2730 too! It also plays mp3s and XM radio. I have it hardwired to speakers from Aerostitch in my helmet that produce good sound that's loud enough to overcome wind noise at speed. If I know in advance where I want to go, I'll create the route in RoadTrip and load it into the GPS before leaving. The 2730 is a bit antiquated compared to the new offerings, but works well for me and I don't feel any need to upgrade.

[iowabeakster]

I also create my routes on the PC and download to my (very antiquated) Garmin GPS V. I really like the ability to click with my mouse and have the computer draw the lines. This way I can custom pick every single road that I ride. The computer just connects my dots. I would be happy enough but... I have to download detailed maps to the GPS too. My old turd of GPS does not have enough memory for all the maps covering several long days of riding.

So, I want a new GPS too. One that holds all of the detailed maps internally. What I want is the ability to create routes in the same way as the computer, but on the GPS itself (create routes while out on the road, without bringing a computer along). I don't want to type out a location and then have the software pick out the route. Can you do this on the Zumos? Is there any other GPS that does this?

[Dr. Strangelove]

So, I want a new GPS too. One that holds all of the detailed maps internally. What I want is the ability to create routes in the same way as the computer, but on the GPS itself (create routes while out on the road, without bringing a computer along). I don't want to type out a location and then have the software pick out the route. Can you do this on the Zumos? Is there any other GPS that does this?

AFAIK, The zumo does not do this. And to make matters worse, if you deviate from your chosen route, the zumo will continue to direct you back so that you have ridden the chosen route. The only way to stop this is to close out that route and then reopen it.
But what you REALLY want is easy typing into it. The zumo setup is user repugnant.
John
EDIT--you can tell it to route you to anyplace in the database from a specified point, but as far as choosing specific roads, nada. It will choose based on your preference of fastest time or shortest route. Need to carry your laptop to do what you seek. or maps.

I carry both

[harveyrawn]

What I want is the ability to create routes in the same way as the computer, but on the GPS itself (create routes while out on the road, without bringing a computer along). I don't want to type out a location and then have the software pick out the route. Can you do this on the Zumos? Is there any other GPS that does this?

On my 2730, whether creating routes on my computer or the GPS, I create the route I want by inserting enough waypoints along the route to force the GPS to follow my chosen roads. You can add or delete them from the routes in the computer or on the GPS. I think that most units work about the same way.

[Dr. Strangelove]

you could probably do that on the zumo also, but that sounds really tedious. A map with a cheat sheet would be far more convenient I thnk

[OU812]

Maps are the only back up to a GPS.

[jcridge]

Garmin allows you to turn off the auto reroute ( bitch mode), you just need to go into the setup and turn it (her) off.

The Routing you are able to do on the Map Source software on your PC is the only way to plot your exact route.

We all use GPS differently, I typically do not plot a predetermined route. I pick my route(s) the night before, then type in the address of the place I want to end up when I get on the bike and let Garmin tell me the fastest route and when I can expect to be there. GPS for me is just a tool, I tend to take the long way, the twisty path, the path less traveled...
But on those great occasions that I get so caught up in find cool roads to ride, I no idea where I am, a few button strokes and I'm back on track.

One cool feature I like with the Zumo is when you want fuel or food, a few buttons and you can call a restaurant for information, or you can just hit the "go" button and Garmin will take you there. This might be the newer software, my last Garmin was the 2720.

Map are great at finding routes to get somewhere, but GPS tells you where you are on the planet. Maps and GPS are really apples and oranges, both useful tools and compliment each other, but they are not the same thing. Dead reckoning, sighting and map orientation are skills everyone should know, but no one takes the time anymore. Remember the old saying "God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal" Maps have been with us since the beginning, GPS has made old school navigation a thing of the past.


John

[Dr. Strangelove]

You are right we all use them differently and for me the menu hierarchy is absurd and unnecessarily difficult to use and the typing is, well, they couldn't have made it harder. It's as if they TRIED to make it as hard and distracting as they could. And they succeeded.

Designed by bikers? Maybe cafe racers, while having espresso I think.

Great, it has a touchscreen that responds to gloved fingers and it's waterproof. The last thing you'd want to be doing is using that menu a few times in the rain trying to find a motel actually UP the road, not behind you or off to the side of you, actually on your route , and before the screen refreshes and brings you back to the default screen of motels closest to you, front back side, it doesn't care, but YOU do and YOU have to wade through that. In the weather at speed. The number of times your gloved finger will touch that touch sensitive screen is A LOT. A bunch of fun while riding a curvy road or an interstate. In a perfect world, it's just fine, but in the real world of having to do a leg on I 64 or outside of Houston on I 10 or on Chief Joseph or Cherohala, you better just give up and stop because some traffic event will most certainly happen before you get to the screen you want.
And I know, you're not supposed to be multitasking like that and road safety is Plan A, but after all this thing was "designed by bikers for bikers" and has "left handed operation" and responds to gloved fingers, and has 4 buttons on the left side (poorly marked black on black on black) etc etc Sounds to me they are creating the attractive nuisance of using it while riding, doesn't it? Otherwise, why have all those "biker designed features?"

I want to state that I am not against gps devices per se. I was at LLBean a couple of weeks ago and looked at many gps's. some did have a qwerty keyboard, the garmins had the menu structure of the zumo; so if the only reason to get a zumo is gloved hand operation and waterproof, then I would suggest finding a cheap one with a nice display and putting a shower cap over it when its raining and saving yourself a few hundred dollars, because the zumo is hype.

Obviously, John, your mileage does vary, but as I have used and continue to use the zumo I find the very poor software design, the worst I've ever encountered, irritates me more and more. I was quite serious when I said I wish Microsoft made one. If they did, the menus would be user configurable and there would be a qwerty keyboard. And we haven't talked about the computer software for the zumo; let's just say it's unique in it's operations compared to other software.

One cool feature I like with the Zumo is when you want fuel or food, a few buttons and you can call a restaurant for information, or you can just hit the "go" button and Garmin will take you there

These are the steps for food assuming you are on a route
menu...Where To...food/lodging...food...all types. 5 selections, all on different parts of the screen so your eyes are off the road at least 5 times to get to the food category. Now, you have to choose a place listed and remember the directional arrows are compass related, ie not related to the route that the zumo knows, so if you see a restaurant and the arrow points toward 3 o clock that might be on your way or it may be a side road, the only way to know is to highlight that restaurant--more eyes off the road--and hit another button at the bottom of the screen labeled "show map" and a map will come up showing where it is. It may or may not have detail enough to know if it's on your road. More eyes off the road. Let's say you decide to go there. Another button "GO" and another button choice appears asking if you want to set this as a new destination or a "via" point, ie, a point along the way. If you want to keep going along your prepared route, please please please do not hit the new destination button because if you hit it, uh oh, you just lost your big picture routing. These buttons are frequently close together and I'll bet you're right handed, but a feature is left handed operation so while you're riding a motorcycle, and your telelever suspension is happily going up and down, your left hand lagging that motion by half a second or so. you take your left hand from the grip and your eyes off the road and garmin makes it oh so easy to hit the wrong button, assuming you've remembered how to get there, to that button.

So now you accidentally hit the set as new destination button and your route is gone, so you have to re load it. Ok, bikers, this is how. You can hit a BACK button if one appears on the screen or you can hit the "special" button, my name for it because I was tired of telling my wife when we were using it for car nav, the third button from the top on the left side...I mean come on Garmin, color the damn buttons, red green blue yellow would work--you're asking over $800 for this unit.
So by hitting the special button once or twice you get back to a map, not your route, but a map of where you are. Now hit menu...where to...routes...and scroll through them to find your route and touch it, all the while your eyes are off the road. It will load. But you're not there yet.

Now you are presented another choice and please choose wisely your answer to the question Do You Want To Navigate To The Beginning Of The Route? Ummm do I? No, I don't think so, but will you Lord Zumo, know where I am?
Please take your hand off the grip again and touch NO (oh and your eyes off the road so that you don't inadvertently hit YES) NO is the answer you want. But, why even ask that question? Why put that speed bump in there? So that you can turn around and go back the way you came? Back to the beginning of the route, because that's what it does. But, hey, designed by bikers so I suppose in their research the designing bikers found in their focus groups a sizeable number of bikers often decided along a preplanned route to turn around and go home. Never happened to me. but I'm just one traveling guy. I am truly interested in point B. But maybe the riders were so frustrated with the unit that by that point they really wanted to just go home.

Now, Fuel, another interesting proposition. I will give credit to one good feature here. And this mindset could be expanded to other things like food and lodging, but they are not. That is, a fuel icon pops up on the screen at a pre determined mileage on the trip odometer, and yes, there are some nice data banks on the unit, it's the layout of the software I address. Anyway, I have my alert set to come on at 172 miles. When it does come on, it can be touched and VOILA! gas stations are displayed and their distances. It's still the same arrows pointing in compass directions, but it is only ONE touch and you're possibly there as those arrows point in all directions, kind of like on an airliner, "The nearest exit door may be behind you." Thing is I am not interested in anything behind me. Garmin's designing bikers should know that I will set that warning to come on as a low fuel light, giving me another 40 miles or so, so why tell me about gas 15 miles behind me. In over 50,000 miles I used that info once, in LaMesa, Tx.
BUT BUT BUT if you are looking for gas prior to that light going on..
Menu...Where To...food/lodging...Fuel...auto (there are other choices listed in case you were looking for solid rocket booster fuel or truck stop or convenience store, so take your eyes off the road again, thank you garmin, and choose auto).
Again the same warnings apply should you desire the zumo to take you there as with the aforementioned restaurant.

This is really sloppy design.

And again, if you want a gps, fine, but there are some real design flaws with this unit. There are some things I like about it, and that plays some part in my frustration with it. It could be so much better with better design. It is not worth the premium it costs over other units. I will not replace it with another zumo.

Maybe there is a website that in a tabular way compares various units? I don't know, but that would most certainly be helpful.

John

[harveyrawn]

you could probably do that on the zumo also, but that sounds really tedious. A map with a cheat sheet would be far more convenient I thnk

I don't find it particularly tedious. If you think about it, you are really following the same process as reading a map. I'm at A, next I want to go to B, then take that side road to C, then ride along the river to D, etc. Enter that in the GPS and enjoy letting Doris guide you there while you listen to tunes and enjoy the scenery.

[Jed]

Map are great at finding routes to get somewhere, but GPS tells you where you are on the planet. Maps and GPS are really apples and oranges, both useful tools and compliment each other, but they are not the same thing. Dead reckoning, sighting and map orientation are skills everyone should know, but no one takes the time anymore. Remember the old saying "God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal" Maps have been with us since the beginning, GPS has made old school navigation a thing of the past.

For the general public - old school navigation may be a thing of the past. But for this throwback that learned traditional navigation with both dead reckoning and piloting skills to a high level and has used those skills every traveling minute for the past 15 years, current GPS units can't come close to what I can do with paper maps, a compass and an internal sense of geospatial awareness. Paper maps can be a pain in the ass and some day GPS units will be so powerful and so convenient that traditional navigation skills will be come a lost art. But today is not that day.

My one nod to modern GPS will be to buy an iPad with quality offline mapping software once the quality takes a couple of quantum leaps forward. Until that time I'll continue to use my internal GPS with paper maps, a compass and my dead reckoning and piloting skills. All the while knowing that my traditional skills will outlast any GPS user's batteries, my hardware is nearly unbreakable and my user-interface is much more intuitive that any current GPS offering. of course YMMV

cheers,

[iowabeakster]

I love maps... I love route planning. I regularly ride 200+ miles... well over 100 miles from home... with no map or GPS.

There is a time and place for navigation and routing. For me, that time and place is not when I'm sitting on my motorcycle, on the side of the highway. I'm not gonna waste my "riding time" pulling over to read maps. I'd rather keep riding.

That's what I love about the GPS and route planning software. I never need to figure out where I am on the map, while moving. It doesn't need to be refolded. I can read it in the dark and rain. Once I have planned out the most "fun" route, I really don't need maps anymore. I know where I'm going. I can just glance down occasionally and see:

Turn Left in 1.5 miles on CR-9W12...

Turn Left in 400 ft on CR-9W12...

Turn Right in 3.5 mile on Stinky Johnson's Road...

The graphical map display is almost superfluous to me. I just keep my eyes on the road, and check the GPS instructions at the same time I check my speed.

I understand about taking a route made by the software and altering it by adding waypoints. I think that probably would just irritate me. I would be inserting 30+ waypoints for every 100 miles. And, from my experience... the software will not connect those waypoints the way I want them connected. I just can't imagine routing that way for a 400 mile day (entirely lesser traveled roads) on the unit. It would take hours... I would smash the thing before I finished.

[harveyrawn]

I understand about taking a route made by the software and altering it by adding waypoints. I think that probably would just irritate me. I would be inserting 30+ waypoints for every 100 miles. And, from my experience... the software will not connect those waypoints the way I want them connected. I just can't imagine routing that way for a 400 mile day (entirely lesser traveled roads) on the unit. It would take hours... I would smash the thing before I finished.

Normally, I only need to insert a few waypoints to create a "backroads" route rather than a "mainroads" route. Here's one I made to ride from near Paso Robles in central California to Big Sur via Fort Hunter Liggett. The 80-mile ride shows about 10 waypoints and I probably could have got by with 6 or 7. It's not a big deal to prepare in advance and then enjoy the ride.