Slipping Clutch

[jas]

It would appear that my clutch is beginning to slip a bit and I wanted to make sure it is not my imagination.

On three occasions while shifting from 4th to 5th or 5th to 6th gear, my rpm’s increase, and the transmission appears disengaged. A quick downshift followed by an up-shift remedies the problem . Again, this has only occurred three times within the past three weeks (~260 miles).

Also, the gasket between the motor and transmission appears to be seeping a little bit. It is starting to attract dust, making the union of these two parts visible.

2004 Rockster, 23K miles still under warranty through June 9, 2009.

[fnfalman]

That's definitely clutch slippage right there.

Mine did that a few times before it went kaputs. Turned out that the spline teeth were all chewed up.

[sweatmark]

Seeping at the transmission/block interface could be crank seal, or more likely clutch slave cylinder - which would account for some shifting difficulties. I suppose the splines could be involved too, though your bike is still low-miles.

With warranty coverage I would definitely request thorough dealer tech troubleshooting, and confirm that diagnosis (and any required fix) is well-documented.

Good luck!

[AndyRR]

Seeping at the transmission/block interface could be crank seal, or more likely clutch slave cylinder - which would account for some shifting difficulties. I suppose the splines could be involved too, though your bike is still low-miles.

With warranty coverage I would definitely request thorough dealer tech troubleshooting, and confirm that diagnosis (and any required fix) is well-documented.

Good luck!

+1

There is no gasket between the engine and transmission and there should be no oil there. Your clutch is likely contaminated with oil. If either the clutch slave or the transmission seal in front of it fail, the oil can travel across the clutch slave rod, through the input shaft and contaminate the clutch. Have them save your old clutch so you can inspect the hub splines, or if your schedule allows and the dealer cooperates, have a look at the splines while it is apart. If your bike is suffering from misalignment, it should be showing some signs of abnormal wear at 23k.

If, on the other hand, it is spline related you are fortunate to have it happen under warranty. Make sure they FIX THE PROBLEM and don't just replace the spline and clutch and put it back together. I think this scenario is unlikely as spline failure will tend to be an all or nothing situation.

Let us know what happens.

[jas]

I went to the local shop to schedule an appointment for next week. I explained the problem and the seeping seal, to which both service guys said “contaminated clutch.” Although not surprised, they also said it seems pretty early (low mileage) for this to occur.

This will be the first time back to the shop since the ruptured fuel line at less than 6k miles.

Am I right to assume that the original warranty will protect me and my pocket book?

[sweatmark]

Isn't normal warranty 3 years or 36k miles, with time accumulated after original/new purchase?
Do you have some type of extended warranty, or maybe "new-old-stock" bike that sat on dealer's floor for a couple years?

[jas]

Isn't normal warranty 3 years or 36k miles, with time accumulated after original/new purchase?
Do you have some type of extended warranty, or maybe "new-old-stock" bike that sat on dealer's floor for a couple years?

Sweatmark, you're correct. When I was shopping for a bike in 2006, the local dealer located a new (old stock) 2004 Rockster at the BMW NA warehouse in New Jersey. It was supposedly one of three 1150r’s still in a crate sitting on the warehouse floor.

Ultimetly my hopes are that nothing is found to be wrong with the bike. My fear is that they will argue that the clutch has not been contaminated, and that it is just worn out from user wear. At 23k miles, the latter should not be.

[sweatmark]

I don't recall a single instance of worn-out clutch here on the Roadster board. Would wager that the same is true for R1150GS and R1150RT bikes as well. No way your bike with 23k miles has worn out its clutch disc.

The R1150** clutch problems are not the typical automotive scenario with worn friction surfaces, but instead are caused by fluid contamination due to seal problems and slave cylinder, and/or spline failures. What irks me most about the R1150** drivetrain problems is the direct comparison to similar car systems: we buy our BMW Boxers because they have automotive-type drivetrains, and should therefore be more robust than wet-clutch & chain-drive motorcycle systems... our bikes should be "car tough".

[jas]

The reason I brought–up the “warn clutch” scenario, is because the dealership contact said that it would be one of the only reason I would be responsible for the cost of repairs. At 23K miles I would find it hard to believe it's a warn clutch.

What are the visual signs of a contaminated clutch plate w/o taking things apart? The main seal is a little moist, enough to attract road dust (more of a seep rather than a leak). I have looked in the engine timeing hole, behind the rubber plug, and that area appears to be dry. The fluid reservoir is clean and full as is the trans fluid.

Should I change the clutch fluid this weekend and see if that makes helps?

[AndyRR]

There are no visual signs other than the fluid you described seeping from where it shouldn't be. And unless you've been driving around with your clutch partially engaged, your clutch will not be worn out. You could remove the starter - an easy job - and see the edge of the clutch and (maybe) see for yourself if there is fluid contamination. It's underneath the cover that the accessory socket is mounted to.
I wouldn't bother with the clutch fluid or anything else for that matter. Get it to your dealer and have them take care of it.

[jas]

I removed the starter, and the clutch area appeared dry and with some road dust. We'll see what the dealer has to say next week.

[jas]

Well, the clutch was not contaminated, and the splines look like new, no wear . They did replace a seal under warranty, and the ride home was fine with no slippage.

The only "issue" I had, or I should say they had, is that they tipped my bike over in the shop and scraped the valve cover. So next week I have to go back and have them put a new cover on. It's funny, the bottom of the valve cover is scraped/ground, but there is not a mark on my bags or anywhere else on my bike.

[sweatmark]

Well, the clutch was not contaminated, and the splines look like new, no wear

Great news! Will be interested to hear your comments about the shifting problem.

[jas]

Sweatmark - What part of Oregon are you from? I grew up in the southeastern portion of the state, attended school in Ashland, Bend and finally graduated from OSU.

[sweatmark]

Live in the Willamette Valley, perfect soggy launching ground for many good moto-trips.

Originally from Seattle, but have lived in in southwest, southeast, east, midwest... wherever the witness protection program takes me.

<edit> hey, you're only an hour or two from John Day... the Chief Joe rally and twice-annual runs along US12 Lolo Pass should be mandatory for you. See you at the rally this year?

[jas]

Should the fire season not be to taxing on me, I’ll try and time the rally with a trip to visit family. I hope to make it.

I miss the Willamette Valley, my wife attended flight school in Eugene while we lived in Corvallis. I also miss our weekend trips to Seattle when we lived in Winthrop, WA.

[sweatmark]

Revisiting this thread. Our dealer diagnosed leaking clutch slave cylinder when Mrs. Sweatmark's Roadster had its 24k mile service this month. Maintenance personnel commented that clutch slaves are common problems, along with plenty of clutch/transmission spline failures. Here we go!