From the T-link Bracket to Optimum lightning Solution...

[deilenberger]

Ride on famousperson !

I wonder if the best auxiliary light for urban riding would not be the Hella that Don use but converted in HID... remain to know where to install the ballast. I am sure there shape and pattern work well for conspicuouty and increase visibility without blinding the whole city around.

I see no real reason to convert FF50's to HID. We've done informal shoot-offs in the parking lot of the restaurant that we hold our club meetings at - and the Hella FF50s, with the stock halogen bulbs in them EASILY outshone some rather expensive HID auxiliary lights one of our IronButt riding members had on his bike. They are very impressive lights. I've had them on 2 bikes so far, and if I got another bike I'd be trying to figure out how to mount them on that bike. They are too bright to use at night if there is oncoming traffic...

[deilenberger]

I was looking at your caliper mounting picture and still was wondering if the airflow had to be removed or not with those one... or even if the presence of the lights disturbed the air flow itself.

No. It mounts behind the air-foil on the caliper, and the only part that would be in the stream of the air is the light mounting post - IMHO not large enough to be a significant factor in the amount of air getting to the oil cooler.

[AmostThere]

The Hella FF50s are oval (elliptical?), right? Is there room on your caliper mount LumaLink brackets to mount the FF50s with the long axis of the ellipse parallel to the ground or would that create some sort of clearance issue? I really like the photos you posted but I am not sure about the scale of the whole thing since you haven't mounted them.

[deilenberger]

The Hella FF50s are oval (elliptical?), right? Is there room on your caliper mount LumaLink brackets to mount the FF50s with the long axis of the ellipse parallel to the ground or would that create some sort of clearance issue? I really like the photos you posted but I am not sure about the scale of the whole thing since you haven't mounted them.

Oval. And no - the caliper mount bracket wouldn't work with the FF50's. Rotating them would make for very odd light patterns (lighting up the trees overhead and the ground right in front of the bike..) and there is no way to mount them to the caliper mounts in the normal (large axis horizontal) orientation.

I've gotta get some photos of the caliper mounts on the bike - it's just been too cold, or when it warms up I GOTTA GO FOR A RIDE.. mebbe this weekend.

[celticus]

"I've gotta get some photos of the caliper mounts on the bike "

Don, The lights you have on your bike now look wonderful. No need to mess with those caliper mounts. Just sell them to me.

Mark

[thepeacebullgrunt]

It seems like those guys in UK will charge you
approximately $250 to HID convert an Hella FF50 light Kit.

Here---> http://www.hid50.com/

Its late... I am tired...so I still don't know exactly where they put the ballast..........anywayyy.......................

[ka5ysy]

I've gotta get some photos of the caliper mounts on the bike - it's just been too cold, or when it warms up I GOTTA GO FOR A RIDE.. mebbe this weekend.

Hey Don... it was 78 degrees yesterday down here. Had a great ride day blasting around town doing lawyer business. I will probably do the same today. Temp should be in the low 80's. I will think about you today while I ride over to get some gumbo and fried catfish at Middendorf's . I might even have to take the liner out of my airmesh jacket!


Hint: Gerbings ?

[deilenberger]

I ride every weekend - I have Gerbings, I have heated grips, and I now have a butt-warming pad (wonderful thing!).. but days are still short so I don't ride to work (I don't like dodging the damn deer on the way home at twilight.) Once daylights savings time kicks in again, the bike will go to work daily (only TWO MORE WEEKS!)

I do agree - I love the FF50's on the fork-slider clamps. That's why I haven't been rushing to mount the caliper mount lights. I'll copy something FredR1200Ric and I have been talking about in PMs - he asked my feelings on Hella vs Trailtech, and here is what I told him (meaning I'll find it really hard to sell the TrailTechs..) He had asked if there was any real reason to consider the TrailTechs.. my response was:

The TrailTech design is using a bulb that is intended for use in a projector, just like MotoLites. These put out a cone shaped pattern of light. The angle of the cone can change with the shape of the reflector, but it will always be cone shaped. Light will go up and down that isn't useful to you, and may well be distracting (you don't want the trees overhead lit up..)

The Hella lights use the shape of the reflector and a lens as the front element to put out an oval light pattern with a clear horizontal and vertical pattern. Lots easier to put the light where it's useful with the Hella lights. The light is designed for the use it's being used for - auxillary light - and it's pretty darn good at it. Hella has been making lights for about as long as BMW has been in business - they're pretty good at it. The TrailTech lights were originally designed as helmet lights for off-road bicycle riding - where a round wide pattern is probably a good thing, especially since they're only going 5MPH..

Lots of people have lots of theories on lights. Unfortunately - lots of people think "brighter is better" - it's not always better. Brighter and useable is better. My theories are based on a lot of research and a lot of years using auxillary lights on cars and bikes. My background is basic physics and the properties of light - it's something I have an interest in.

There you have it..

BTW - I should put up a photo of my revised Hella mounting. I moved them to the bottom of the LumaLink clamp - for two reasons (actually one reason and one serendipitous reason..)

When I was working with Klaus Hueneke on my front HyperPro shock, we wanted to see how much the front suspension can compress. The goal was to know how short a shock could be made and still keep stock suspension travel. We did this with the shock in place, but no spring on it - so we could easily lift the front wheel up.

Doing that, I realized that IF the front suspension fully compressed with the bars hard to the side - the light mounted above the clamp would hit the fuel tank. In 20,000 miles of use - this never happened to me, and I suspect IF this happened I would have already crashed (no way to ride a moving bike with the suspension fully compressed and the bars hard over..), but I also realized mounting the lights under the clamps eliminates this possibility, and widens out the visual "triangle" of the headlight and two auxiliary lights. So - that's how they are now mounted - under the clamp.

Not a big deal - took about 3 minutes per side to do and a few minutes adjusting the lights when done. But worth mentioning I think..

[thepeacebullgrunt]

I have found this Wikipedia link interesting --->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_HID_ ... ht_sources

----------------------
There is something super fancy with Trailtech that I don't buy all the way...
A simple quick look at the Hella design is enough to generate a doubt if having to choose Trailtech versus Hella.

I think Don is totally right
In his PM's he put the final touch at convincing me and myself to do not choose Trailtech...
Hopefully this conversation will help any R1200R.org readers...

Me and myself are proud of what Internet can do

NOW ! there is those sympathetic British folks that propose us to HID convert an Hella's FF50 kit for $250...

What about them ?
Did you see the results in real ?
How the very particular FF50 reflector is performing when reflecting HID bulbs ?
Where are the ballast in those British HID convertion ?
Where to safely attach the ballast if they are external ?

Finally ! HID convert an Hella FF50 Kit...
is it a real improvement and a smart genuine solution or more a forced fancy tweak ?

[celticus]

There is a good looking caliper mount bracket from Motolight on page 10 of the new 2009 BMW Owners Anonymous. www.motolight.com

Mark

[ka5ysy]

There is something super fancy with Trailtech that I don't buy all the way...
A simple quick look at the Hella design is enough to generate a doubt if having to choose Trailtech versus Hella.

Explanation please? What is super fancy with the Trailtech lamps ?? Two 12 volt wires is not fancy by any means !

[ShinySideUp]

Not to detract from previous suggestions, but I came up with a bit of a different solution which I'm thinking of changing yet again.

I found some reasonably-priced HID converted Hella FF50's on eBay about a year ago. I mounted them onto my Hepco-Becker crashbar, using some chrome clamps I found on the net. The ballasts when on either side of the fuel tank in the front. I like them mounted low to pick up potholes etc. And I like the triangle of light they make in the daytime. Cars really do react much differently than before I had them. Also, as has been pointed out, their blue color in comparison to the stock headlamp, makes some cagers wonder if I'm law enforcement. About once a week, just to amuse myself, I hand out a ticket. At least it seems to get their attention.

Photo here: http://tinyurl.com/6pb22q

I was impressed by not only their light output and pattern but by the low wattage draw. Contrary to Don's experience, I find I can use them day and night. As a matter of fact they are unswitched, so if the head light is on, the FF50's are also. In my experience blinding oncoming traffic with them is simply a matter of aiming. I went out at night on a back road and aimed them where I wanted them, where they threw way the heck down the road, practically to Los Angeles. Then I drove around and noticed a lot of cars flashed me. So I lowered them gradually until no cars flash me. Once in a great while, when I'm cresting a hill in San Francisco, a driver will flash me, but in general not at all. I also made sure the left one is aimed closer in than the right one.

This brings me to the modification I'd like to do. While they throw intense broad light fairly far down the road, I find I can out-drive them at uh... slightly higher than legal speeds on the freeway. So I'm thinking of adding MORE auxiliary lights. I'm looking at the PIAA 2100XT's for their supposed 25 degree pencil beam. Cheapest price I found was $173 for the 2-lamp kit. I'm thinking of hanging them underneath my GS handguards, a mount I ope won't be too movable at speed. These WILL be switched and will be aimed very far down the road. Their higher mounting position and tight pattern should make them easier to shine further without upsetting drivers, but I'll make sure the switch is easy to access and use them as cars do their high beams. The position and the high aim should facilitate splitting lanes during the day time as well has flashing oncoming left-turners that may not be paying attention.

Never enough farkles... Never enough light...

[celticus]

Just for the sake of asking , sort of to play devil's advocate, has anyone compared the high dollar lights to Wal-Mart $20 a pair lights. I have two friends who use the low dollar kind for conspicuity but we have never compared them to high priced ones. Most of the folks I ride with are really thrifty people.

Mark

[deilenberger]

There is a good looking caliper mount bracket from Motolight on page 10 of the new 2009 BMW Owners Anonymous. http://www.motolight.com

Mark

Mark, AFAIK - motolight only sells the mount with the motolites.

[deilenberger]

Just for the sake of asking , sort of to play devil's advocate, has anyone compared the high dollar lights to Wal-Mart $20 a pair lights. I have two friends who use the low dollar kind for conspicuity but we have never compared them to high priced ones. Most of the folks I ride with are really thrifty people.

Mark

Conspicuity - the Wal-Mart lights are fine. For actual lighting at night - it's a craps shoot. Might be good, might be awful. I've seen some that show a very ununiform pattern with lots of small hot-spots and dead spots. IMHO - I'm willing to pay to do the job once, and as I said, Hella has about as much experience making lights as BMW does motorcycles. They are very good at it. They do make a lower priced series of lights (Optilux) - haven't tested the light patterns on them, but I'd guess they paid some attention to the optics even if the product is made in China.

You can find the FF50 lights on sale on Ebay periodically - for about $50-70/pair, with an excellent wiring harness (switch, fused relay, the works..)

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Hi ka5ysy !

Explanation about the "Super fancy" expression...

No offensives intention and with all my respect to manufacturers I am still in the process to determine what is the best solution for my bike as auxiliary lightning.

Trailtech...mean TRAIL technology and me I ride at minimum 60miles a day on freeways, city streets and residential... I don't ride in trail. So yes in fact Trailtech lights seems attractive, look good, easy to install, super HID powerful etc etc but the reflector produce a light pattern that is very probably not the best for the type of ride I do specially if I compare with the Hella's FF50.

To me "super fancy" mean the overall buying call is strong but the result can be slightly inefficient to clearly dysfunctional...

The story of ShinySideUp encourage me to take the time to find a pair of HID converted Hella FF50 and study the way to cautiously locate and attach the ballast etc etc.

I wonder what Don Deilenberger think of the way behave
the Hella's FF50 once HID converted ???
as the whole lamp and reflector originally weren't designed for HID bulbs.

I keep posting the link but once again I'll be curious to know what you folks think of those guys in UK ---> http://www.hid50.com/ and do you know a similar conversion service in the US ?

Thanks for reading me and....

Happy Week End To All !

PS: Why not using a small aluminum cover or casement to attach some slim ballast underneath the Hella's directly on the mounting ?
In fact by using the mounting to attach both the light and the ballast...

[deilenberger]

I wonder what Don Deilenberger think of the way behave
the Hella's FF50 once HID converted ???
as the whole lamp and reflector originally weren't designed for HID bulbs.

No idea - you're changing from a line source filament bulb to a point source (HID-discharge) light source, so there may be some change in the light pattern. How well it works also depends on how accurately they've located the point-source in relation to where the filament source would be.

In general - HID reflectors are different than halogen reflectors - designed to keep stray light from going upward, which would tend to blind people.

Why not using a small aluminum cover or casement to attach some slim ballast underneath the Hella's directly on the mounting ?
In fact by using the mounting to attach both the light and the ballast...

One problem will be the length of the wire between the bulb and the ballast assembly. It's a high-voltage cable - so cutting it to shorten it isn't really a good idea for most people. You'd end up with a foot or more of wire to somehow bundle out of the way on the light bracket also. Plus you're adding more unsprung weight to the front end (something I try to avoid since it can negatively effect the ride quality of the suspension.)

[deilenberger]

Got to doing a few photos today..



and



I should note - I don't consider these a finished product yet. There is an additional modification I'm going to suggest to Brian Gordy for these mounts, involving the standoff... If I get a response I'll let you know what I think when it's done..

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Thanks Don !

Nice picture...it look discreet and clean that way.

Last week end I had a chat conversation with http://www.futurevisionhid.com/ who told me that they are preparing a new generation of HID kit... which will became the dominant extension of what they actually name their "HD" products line... most of their lightning kit will be HD in a few weeks and cheaper than those actually displayed on their website.

As he vividly commented the HD models have all kinds of advantages, better built, last much longer, resist much more to shocks, brighter and whiter etc etc...

This representative also said that futurevisionhid will very soon propose 3 or 4 different types of auxiliary lamps with reflectors that were designed for HID bulbs... driving lights, spot and fog lights with 6 different colors etc etc...

Once again
I'll be curious to read what Don or you guys on this forum think of those "HD" HID lights kit .

Honestly I am just reporting the informations I gathered... but these infos invite me to just start with Halogen Hella's...see how it works then decide if I HID convert with those new Kit or even buy one of their specially HID designed reflector & lamp kit.

[deilenberger]

Thanks Don !

Nice picture...it look discreet and clean that way.

Last week end I had a chat conversation with http://www.futurevisionhid.com/ who told me that they are preparing a new generation of HID kit... which will became the dominant extension of what they actually name their "HD" products line... most of their lightning kit will be HD in a few weeks and cheaper than those actually displayed on their website.

As he vividly commented the HD models have all kinds of advantages, better built, last much longer, resist much more to shocks, brighter and whiter etc etc...

You'd never guess he was trying to sell them eh?

This representative also said that futurevisionhid will very soon propose 3 or 4 different types of auxiliary lamps with reflectors that were designed for HID bulbs... driving lights, spot and fog lights with 6 different colors etc etc...

Once again
I'll be curious to read what Don or you guys on this forum think of those "HD" HID lights kit .

HID is actually "old" technology. It dates back to arc-discharge lamps that were invented back in the late 1800's. Those ones were open discharges with carbon electrodes that you pushed together then pulled apart to start the arc. The modern version surrounds the electrodes with a nice glass/quartz envelope, sucks the air out, and then uses a high-voltage spark to start the arc. Once the arc is started, nothing new under the sun.. same technology just a century or more later.

What I see being the future is high-output LED lights. There are cars that are using LED lights for headlights. Since that enables mass production of the technology - costs will start to drop. The big pluses for LEDs are (1) almost unlimited life (2) complete immunity to shock-impact damage, provided you don't wack them with a hammer and crush them (3) More efficient than any filament or arc-discharge light source.

More info at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp#LED_light_sources
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/03 ... di-r8-v10/
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6307569/tec ... index.html
http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles ... ?id=241158

The big plus on a motorcycle - LEDs are rugged and draw less current than any other light source.

Honestly I am just reporting the informations I gathered... but these infos invite me to just start with Halogen Hella's...see how it works then decide if I HID convert with those new Kit or even buy one of their specially HID designed reflector & lamp kit.

I rather suspect once you have the Hella FF50's on your bike, your search will be over. Mine was.