Fresh battery but still trouble starting

[injun]

Hello folks,

My problem is concerning my 2003 twin spark ABS/servo/coupled brakes R1150R

I bought it with 4000 kms on the odometer in late 2006, did another 4000 kms on it last summer. It always had a slow revving starter, but when it got cold I had to bump start it a couple of times. My diagnosis was Tired Battery. During this winter I have installed a fresh BMW 19Ah gel battery which is being charged by an original BMW maintenance charger ( Grey for gel)

But still there is not enough power to turn the starter engine more than a few revs before it goes click-click-click as when battery is flat.

The battery delivers 13,6 volts unstressed, falls to a steady 12,4 volts when ignition and full lights are on, so battery seems okay.
I have disassembled the starter cover and all connections are tight with no signs of currents struggling to get by.

Needless to say battery connections were wirebrushed before assembly and covered with battery conn. paste afterwards. Bike is in a warm and dry garage.

Does anyone have any clue? Are there known weak spots in the wire loom or could I have a fault starter on this otwerwise "brand new "bike?????

[digga]

I am by no means an expert ... but ... what engine oil has it got in it??

is it the correct grade for the weather? too 'thick' when cold, WILL sap battery power.

Noting your location, i wonder if this could be aproblem..but then you say its in a warm a garage ??

[stilldking]

Something I've seen in older cars is that rarely corrossion can be internal to the cable and not easily seen from the outside. Maybe try an Ohm-meter check of the connecting cables.

JC

[CycleRob]

injun,

Check the alternator's regulated voltage at different engine speeds, at the starter top terminal (or jump lug if you have it). It should be between 13.9---14.2 at all times. If not, there's a damaged alternator regulator or diode bank. Diode bank damage shows if there's any AC voltage at the battery with the engine running. Regulator damage shows as large or erratic voltage changes with the RPM. Damage to those parts most likely was caused during a sloppy jump start.

The 2nd battery could have been damaged by the charger. Check battery voltage with the charger connected after being connected for a couple hours. Whatever of these tests you perform, it should NEVER exceed 15V.

.

[zax1150]

firstly the BMW batteries are junk! I've known politicians to hold a promise longer

the oddyssey PC680 is a very good alternative, especially if you have ABS

but as for your starting problem, the main thing to check is the starting solenoid,

the starter motor is just that, a motor, if the brushes & stator are ok then its not a problem

[Arbee]

1. Firstly with an ohmeter measure the resistance in ohms between the battery terminal -ve and the engine
(Note not +ve) if you have one ohm or more there is a problem in the lead or surface corrosion at the terminals
this is enough resistance to bugger things up.

2. Secondly measure across the battery terminals +ve + -ve whilst the motor is running (using DC volts not ohms)
13.8 to 14.4 is normal anything under or over that the regulator first, alternator second, is cactus.

[boxermania]

injun

All posters offer excellent advice and I see that you have done some troubleshooting yourself. Not knowing about your skill level and available troubleshooting tools I would suggest taking the high road.

Find a starter and alternator shop, or electrical shop and ask them to perform a load test on both the battery and the starter and a output test on the alternator that should tag the culprit......of course there is also the remote possibility regarding the oil.

Best of luck and let us know the outcome......

[injun]

Thank you for some very helpful responses. The engine oil is not the problem, fresh Castrol 20W50, in a warm garage (+20 degrees Celcius) with heated floor ( isolation installed under my tires) pine panelled walls, jazz on the CD player, radio, and some nice vintage port on the shelf to console the mechanic at times.

Your advice has been helpful, and I will proceed as this: Remove tank, do a multimeter check on all stretches of electrical wire both regarding resistance at rest, and voltage drop when starter is running. Hopefully that will sort out things.

If I need to remove the starter, there seems to possibly be a need for a special tool to reach a mounting bolt or not between the starter and the engine casing?

[maduko]

Before you pull the tank off hear me out...

Arbee was right on the money with the negative cable check. However you'll get more useful results if you measure voltage drop- do as he suggested but put your meter on volts and crank the bike (use your third arm or get a helper). If the connection is tight you will see NO VOLTS. IOW you aren't "dropping" any voltage over the connection. If you see any rise on the meter it indicates a resistance- sometimes it's so small that an ohmmeter won't pick it up because they are only sending a teensy amount of current over the connection.

The battery delivers 13,6 volts unstressed, falls to a steady 12,4 volts when ignition and full lights are on, so battery seems okay.

Not okay.

At 2.2 volts per cell your six cell battery makes 13.2 volts. IOW when your lights are on (YOU CAN TURN YOUR LIGHTS OFF?!?) your battery is draining which tells me your alternator is not doing it's job. As Cycle Rob pointed out- you might have a bad diode trio in the alternator or something amiss with the charging system.

Any chance you jumped it and touched the cables wrong way round?

[Boxer]

The 2 starter mounting bolts can easily be reached with a standard socket with a 6" extension on the partially hidden one. Take off the battery ground wire before doing this. Usually there is also a plastic zip tie around the starter and that zip tie needs to be cut to let go of some wires it also goes around behind the starter.

[injun]

Thank you again for the responses. I will follow your advice, Maduko, and avoid removing the tank. My battery is brand new ,and the bike has not been run since I installed it some weeks ago, so alternator /Diode board should not be an issue - I suppose.

[CycleRob]

The alternator regulator and/or diode bank certainly CAN be an issue if they are damaged and bleeding a small current to ground.

You need to run the engine and take those AC and DC readings.

.

[injun]

One more question; Can the battery be safely quick-charged by using the positive terminal/connector the starter and negative to engine /fram somewhere?

[CycleRob]

Yes.
Use the top copper colored nut/stud/terminal with the FAT red cable that goes upward for (+). For the negative, don't use the cylinder fins, they're painted and won't conduct electricity. I recommend the whole bolt length on the exhaust crossover midpipe clamp by the front bottom of the engine. It's big and chunky enough that the jumper clamps have something big to hang onto and it won't slip off from engine vibration (if you start it) like any other bolthead on the engine would. It's also a good high current handling connection that's far away from the (+) clamp . . . . . a good thing.

.