Parts is Parts!

[Johan_SA]

You guys (and girls) here have given me the courage to try many things with my bike that I initially thought I'd NEVER do. However, I hope that I never see my bike like this.

[Boxer]

Barno, I hope you're having better luck than I am getting the parts taken apart per directions. If someone had just put the simple instruction in there about that bar underneath. I guess they just assume you know certain things. Here I've been struggling first with the overkill threadlocker issue and could not figure out how that bar under there would come out even with that bolt out of there. It may seem simple to some, and it IS once you realize what has to happen. But picturing the overall scheme is the problem. It came down to this: I was told by Rob to just drill out the bolt head. I couldn't see how getting that bolt head off would facilitate removing the bar underneath. Then after puzzling over it for half the day, it became suddenly clear that if I loosen those front frame bolts and drill off the head of that rear frame bolt, I can raise the frame and from one end just SLIDE OUT the damn bar! That's why they sneeringly call us amateurs.

So I got the front frame bolts loosened and am in the process of drilling like mad on the head of that stuck bolt. Not making good headway...My drill bit smokes and must be sort of dull... slowly but surely.

Now I have an even bigger problem though! Is it any surprise? While breaking the left front frame bolt loose with my big hex key and cheater bar, I popped the fuel injector feed line right off at the top of the inlet bracket. After cussing myself for a few minutes I sat down and cried. Yes folks, Boxer cries!

This is not an easy fix. I now have to take off the battery box and somehow keep the fuel cables all straight underneath while I re-install that hard fuel line which goes to the little fuel distribution contraption.
This parts fiche shows it as a line with clamps, but I fear it's not that way. I'll know more when I go shopping for parts tomorrow.

[Beemeridian]

88

[csalt]

When I removed my rear subframe about a year and a half ago I ended up having big trouble with that same right hand side Torx. Ended up stripping the head of it pretty good. I thought it was under tension from the rear shock somehow even tho I had everything braced pretty well. When it all went back together I found that Porsche front brake caliper bolts are the same size and have a 12 sided head (torx has six) that I replaced it with. Smooth as buttah. If I have to take it out again. Twice the gripping surface. Tool that fits is available at most good auto part stores cheap and fits in socket.
Left the airbox out . Fitted K-N's to the throttle body. Replaced the fuel pressure regulator with 3.5 bar. Havent messed with the clutch slave cylinder yet but with all that space with no airbox should be easy peasy as Riceburner says.
Good wrenchen,
Doug

[iowabeakster]

Now I have an even bigger problem though! Is it any surprise? While breaking the left front frame bolt loose with my big hex key and cheater bar, I popped the fuel injector feed line right off at the top of the inlet bracket. After cussing myself for a few minutes I sat down and cried. Yes folks, Boxer cries!

Holy aggravation Boxerman. Crying is better than my response would have been.

If it were me, I wouldn't talk to myself for days. Occasionally, I would punch myself in the face.

[Boxer]

csalt, how did you end up getting it out?

I'm just about ready to throw in the towel. I can't even get the damn head drilled off it now. It started out fine but I hit a wall and have just about burned up my drill. I went and bought a new 13/32 bit this evening to see if that would finish it, but it just smokes and won't cut any deeper. The head is 10mm high and I'm probably only about 6mm down on the sides. Why would they make something that strips so easily but is harder than kryptonite just half way down?

I don't get it.
With the screw-ups on this project, my bike may be for sale soon as a basket case.

[DSKYZD]

Don't give up on it, Phil. Take a day off, come back with a fresh mind. You can do it!!!

[OU812]

Get another new bit and try some oil while drilling. It has worked for my projects at work.

[Arbreacames]

...My main problem continues to be the rear main frame bolt binding on the loctite. It came out some, but is stripped really good.

Phil, have you tried removing the bolt after losening the two pinch bolts AND your wrench from the cross-tube? As Rob says, they are clamping the bolt. To hold the tube, tighten the left side bolt. If necessary, hold it with a gripping wrench on the left side. I know that your bolt is stripped and partly drilled, but you should not need much torque anymore. Can you fit a screw extractor?
I am not good drilling steel either, but you can't let your bits get smoking-hot. Use oil and let the bit cool down. Once you overheat a drill bit, it loses its sharpness and you can throw it away.

[jb44]

Don't give up now, Phil. Keep at it. As Carlos says, a smaller bit and a screw extractor might work.

If not, surely Rob or one of your N. GA group can assist.

I have been anticipating your turning over 100,000 miles on that bike. Come on, get back on the road.

jb

[CycleRob]

Boxer, I feel a ride coming on . . . like a timely one for a friendly housecall.
Tomorrow (Tuesday) is supposed to be 55degF (12.8C) so I'm planning on being there about 3pm with Left-Hand drills, Easy-Outs and other tools. Check your yahoo E-Mail for the details.
Will call before noon to confirm.
.

[csalt]

Boxer
Ended up pounding a 12 point 8 m.m. torx in the stripped head with a hammer and it turned out enough to grab with some vice grips. Your problem started as did mine with using the allen style torx that came in your tool kit. It slips enough to strp the head. Purchase some socket head torx that fit in a standard rachet. Much more torque on the head and it is centered more so than the allen key style wrench. Had to pull the rear sub frame off the bike so every thing was loose on the bolts. I did put it back together to work on that one right hand bolt so everything was aligned so that bolt did not bind on the way out. Good thing I was doing this for a fun project other wise I'd a been a bit upset.
Check out those twelve point heads when you put it back together. I had to put in an extra washer on the right side because it was just a hair longer than the stripped one. Left side went in just fine. The Porche caliper bolts are also very high strength so no fear of them shearing off.
I did order two new bmw bolts that are still in my extra parts drawer. If you cant find them local be happy to ship them to you.
Doug

[Boxer]

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. Carlos, I don't think the wrench or pinchbolts are squeezing the bar as Rob thought. The wrench is just a box-end wrench sitting on the flats of the bar to keep it from spinning, and the pinch-bolts are loose. It's the threadlocker I'm sure. I remember when I took out the clutch bleed stub a long time ago and replaced it with the bleed nipple, it was locked in with the red stuff as well. When I finally did get it loose (and it was tight all the way to the bitter end) it had the red beaded-up gummy stuff all over the threads. Tough stuff. I think once I got it going some of the beaded up semi-dry stuff took a grab and would not let go. I can't figger why the heat I've applied hasn't softened it at all. I got that bar up to 217'F under there.
Now back to what's happening today. I went out and got my gasket and washers for the slave cylinder and bought the new fuel distributor with pipes firmly and permanently attached, along with the FI brackets firmly and permanently attached to each side. The old one has been snaked out with much difficulty and wiggling and squeezing. However the old one did not have the FI bracket attached to the end of the left line. As you remember, I broke that one off. I have now spent at least an hour diverted from my seized bolt trying to figure out a way to get that new fuel distributor contraption back inside there under the battery tray and resting right on top of the front end of the air box. Even with the battery tray raised and the air box loosened and the right TB taken off and the oil overflow line disconnected from the air box, it still needs the frame raised to get it in there...Which I will do just as soon as Rob gets over here with his skills and tools to help get the seized bolt off/loose/bored/drilled/extracted...or whatever. I priced that bar today. About $10. I'm thinking more and more about sawing that bastige in half.

[Biff's R]

Phil,
We are all pulling for you. You will win.

[CycleRob]

Well, the deed is done. I got the bolt out.

Started out this afternoon about 2:30. I already entered Phil's home address into the Zumo450 last night so it was ready in 30 seconds. It was bright sun, very windy and 54degF (12.2degC). Because the roads to his house are all secondary state country roads, it was a sweet 1h:03m ride. Widder vest and heated grips both full ON. As luck would have it, a lot of the trip was at 2,750 RPM in 6th gear, the engine speed where the the exhaust resonates. Nice tune from my totally gutted & rewelded stock muffler.

Lots of curves in those 53 miles (85.3km). The GPS takes me right to his driveway. After greeting, I began unloading my 2 electric drills (right angle drill & hammer drill) Torx and Allen bits sets, and propane torch. The bike was in the heated ground floor den. Looking at the bolt, the allen was almost completely round from the big drill I advised Phil to use the day before. I used my 1/2" chuck hammer drill to try and finish the job of drilling the head off. That happens because I was drilling thru the center of the bolthead with a drill larger than the bolt 's shank. My drill made a racket and dulled itself in about a minute of slow hammer drilling. Frustrating, but I'll resharpen the drill tomorrow. I decided to try the bang-in-and-turn method.

Phil said the bolt had been turned out about 2 turns before it seized. he got out the heat gun and aimed it at the metal crossbar from where the rear tire would be. I was searching for a big Torx or Allen bit socket that I could pound into the drilled Allen. The 3/8" one was the tightest and I loudly HAMMERED it in until there was about 1/8" (3.1mm) penetration. After the transmission case surrounding the crossbar was too hot to touch I tried to loosen the bolt while Phil held the crossbar with an open end wrench on the bar's machined flats. It did not budge!! When that happens and it was already loosened, you tighten it. After a hard turning force, it started to turn!!! I went in about 1 turn then tried to loosen it again. It loosened, got real tight, but it kept on going!! BINGO. It came all the way out. What a relief!!

After that, I helped him put the new (unbroken) fuel rail in by holding the frame almost straight up for better access. I checked out the removed slave and it looked like new. The anodized internal bore was like new. Then we went into the garage where the vise was to drill a bottom weephole in it. I eyeballed it and drilled the tiny hole, right where it was supposed to be. Phil might show a pic. After that I got out the right angle close quarter drill to safety wire the TeleLever nuts. That went slow-n-easy and came out perfect. Overall, I had fun and got to befriend his cautiously timid Pomeranian, Sophie, who was oddly fascinated with the new guy. She liked being petted. Small as she was, she was man's best friend.

Phil seemed a whole lot happier. I loaded up the tools, touch screened "Go Home" and I was off after about 2.5 hrs work. Temp at dusk was now 50F (10C) (and it'd drop to 46F (7.8C) when I got home after dark, running 43 miles (69.2km) on the low fuel light. What a NICE ride!!

.

[Beemeridian]

88

[OU812]

[Boxer]

You just cannot imagine HOW much happier I am after Rob's visit yesterday. After seeing how he was not able to drill that sucker out with great ease, it made me feel a little better knowing I had tried my best on that thing. Then when he said he was going to hammer a hex key in there and try that, I thought about csalt's similar solution to this problem a few replies back in this thread.
When that bolt finally started to turn out Rob was happy....I was ecstatic!

And yes I DO have a couple of pics of the slave cylinder mod Rob performed. This first one shows the back side of the cylinder with the new gasket in place and the tiny hole Rob drilled to drain any leaking fluid out the bottom.


This next closeup you can see better how he drilled through just barely nicking the outside of the housing. I cut a hole in the new gasket in this location so the fluid will drain right past the gasket.


Thank you Rob. I began this morning putting things back and reattaching the slave, bleeding it out etc. I have to go out again in a while and get some more parts, bolts etc. for getting it all back together. I am following Rob's suggestion to clean out the fuel cable junction box while I have it exposed. I am also going to place an order for a set of those metal QD's some of you guys have installed. By the time those get here, I should have the new fillister head frame bolt which I had to order, and I can get this thing cleaned up roadworthy.

[jb44]

It's good to have a friend in high places...or near by.

jb

[CycleRob]

I gave Phil a call-back today -after- I loosened both of my crossbar frame bolts. I did it on a cold 50degF (10.0C) bike - - - no heat. I knew they were premium quality steel bolts after watching Phil's bolt dull one of my drills in less than a minute. The bolt head is sufficiently deep to take at least 1oo ft-lbs torque. The Torx head was developed because it will handle a higher torque than an Allen head and it's friendlier to automated machine assembly. Red Loctite isn't strong enough to hold the threads and have me strip out the head. Loosening them, the left side took all the strength I had using a 7" long 3/8ths drive ratchet. The head did NOT strip out and here's why. I used the right tool. It's a T-50. The lower 2 footpeg bracket bolts have a T-45 head. Do you see why my T-50 bolt head didn't turn to mush??

I mentioned this to Phil on the phone and he admitted he used the same bit (T-45) to loosen all 3 bolts. I think his medication for the really bad cough he had must'a clouded his good judgment.