Another one

[telson]

Good evening ladies and gents...

I had a lengthy discussion upon the pros and cons of engine braking, even on low revs, for motorcycles. My personal opinion is that there is no need for me to put my hands and feet to the brakes if I can see/predict that I am going to be braking further down the road... I do use it all the time...

My mates point is that the strain on the gearbox is significant, therefore you should not brake using your engine...

I know it all comes down to driving habits and routines, but does anyone has solid facts that may be presented before us?

thanks

[Green Hornet]

I know this is a very simplistic answer.

BUT brakes are easeier to service than transmissions or clutches.

I do do it myself to some extent but not as general rule in regards to above statement. I use it set up my braking.

Micky

[dragonmojo]

It depends on where you are riding. In the twisties I am going thru various gear shifts to find that ideal sweet spot. Coming off a brief straight and approaching that next bend, I apply a bit of trail-braking to scrub off some speed. Sometimes a downshift will do it. The clutch is pulled and the throttle blipped while going down a gear and soon I am thrust out of the corner while the engine revs higher than the range where I'd normally be riding it. I'm not sure if that qualifies as engine-braking, but I feel there is a lot more engine control. I am riding the bike, and not the other way around.

What price fun?

[iowabeakster]

You were right to say that this an opinion matter. You will get no hard facts from me.

But this is my general philosophy.

Situtation #1: I see a stop sign a quarter mile down the road. I pull in the clutch and use the brakes. Since I won't be reapplying any power from the motor to the wheel until after a complete stop is made, and my feet have touched the ground there is no reason to put the drive-train through the stress. In this situation, the engine brake gives no BENEFIT. Motors, tranny's, clutches and their assoicated components are expensive. All bikes should be able to withstand this stress, by why do it hundreds or thousands of EXTRA times (over the years) it if it has no benefit? I plan on having my bike for many years.

Situation #2: I am on an curvy, fun road. I use the engine brake. Control, control, control. Did I say Control? I am willing to put the stress on the drive-train in exchange for control. In this case, there is a very real BENEFIT.


Last note: carbon deposits. If your motor is still burning oil, engine braking will pull more oil past those rings and into the cumbustion chamber. Leaving you running high octane gas in the future.

[Javama]

You were right to say that this an opinion matter. You will get no hard facts from me.

But this is my general philosophy.

Situtation #1: I see a stop sign a quarter mile down the road. I pull in the clutch and use the brakes. Since I won't be reapplying any power from the motor to the wheel until after a complete stop is made, and my feet have touched the ground there is no reason to put the drive-train through the stress. In this situation, the engine brake gives no BENEFIT. Motors, tranny's, clutches and their assoicated components are expensive. All bikes should be able to withstand this stress, by why do it hundreds or thousands of EXTRA times (over the years) it if it has no benefit? I plan on having my bike for many years.

Situation #2: I am on an curvy, fun road. I use the engine brake. Control, control, control. Did I say Control? I am willing to put the stress on the drive-train in exchange for control. In this case, there is a very real BENEFIT.


Last note: carbon deposits. If your motor is still burning oil, engine braking will pull more oil past those rings and into the cumbustion chamber. Leaving you running high octane gas in the future.

I fully agree on this!
What the price difference of a set of brakepads or a clutch/ drivetrain?

[Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales]

I like to treat the bike gently, BUT I always want to keep in contact with the drivetrain, for safety reasons, so I don't pull in the clutch before i stop. NEVER. If an emergency arises, i want to be able to either stop as quickly as possible OR accelerate out of trouble as quickly as possible.

Riding generally, I don't like to use the engine to brake from high revs., but I will use the engine for normal braking, perhaps with the use of the brakes as well. Whatever is smoothest is best.

Ride safely,

Rog

[maduko]

I agree that brakes are the best way to stop your bike. No argument there.

But engine braking has its place, especially when riding in the city.

Whenever I approach an intersection where I plan to turn, I always do a little engine braking. While the bike is still straight I downshift and engage the clutch. Not so much to slow the bike though- my theory is it helps me motor around the corner more smoothly.

I do this to avoid releasing the clutch in a lower gear while in the middle of a turn. It's the same idea as braking before the entry of a curve. The less drama we induce while in mid-turn the better.

And I question the wear-and-tear issue. Except for extreme cases of abuse, the stress on the driveline is much greater when you dump the clutch than it is when you bleed of a little speed.

Now the guys that seem to click each and every gear as they stop... sorry, that's just silly.

[jfslater98]

Now the guys that seem to click each and every gear as they stop... sorry, that's just silly.

Looks like I'm one of "those guys" In my defense, I've been doing it mainly to practice matching revs while downshifting. Besides, it's kind of fun. If there's any urgent situation, I will just use the brakes.

[brem]

Aren't there fuel economy advantages to engine braking? I've heard that modern engines are smart enough to reduce or eliminate fuel input while engine braking with the throttle completely closed. I know that my Rockster occasionally backfires while doing this (highly amusing) which implies that there's definitely still fuel going through there. Anyone know the specifics of this for the 1150 boxer? Personally I tend to engine brake while city riding down to about 15mph simply because it's not infrequent that I need to get back on the power to avoid a cabbie with a death wish or because traffic has started moving again, and it seems to be less stressful to the drive train to engine brake rather than constantly up- and down-shift.

[m@rco]

I guess we'd have to define the meaning of engine breaking first: in my mind, engine breaking means to deliberately shift down gears and actually use the higher revs of a lower gear, in order to reduce speed. In that case one uses all 6 gears and uses the clutch 6 times before coming to a complete stop.

Based on that definition, my first and most important comment has to be: engine breaking is wearing out your clutch and your rear tire. As mentioned previously, the cost of replacing a clutch is much higher than that of a set of brake pads. Further, it can be dangerous if you drop the clutch too fast and your rear tire starts to skid. Especially in curves.

Now, if you are approaching a red-light and would keep the bike in gear, you benefit from some "engine breaking" but without wearing out your clutch. In this case, you safe some fuel because the fuel supply is being shut off if the engine make more than 1800 rpm without opening the throttle. When slowing down in any gear, you'll actually feel the moment the fuel supply restores (to idle consumption). Just before that, I usually engage the clutch and change gears when approaching a (nearly) complete stop. I, then, gently swift through all 4 gears, straight into neutral. Mind you that this goes best if the bike is still rolling. If you do this at higher speeds, you'll actually experience a rougher gear change and this would cause unnecessary wear. Waiting in neutral at a traffic light also reduces the wear of your clutch.

If you don't come to a stop and only reduce speed, I usually shift before the curve. I try to reduce speed with the brake and then or simultaneously shift gears. Needless to say that you can smoothen the shifting by opening the throttle just so that the rpm's of engine and drive train match. It is better not to shift gears IN a curve, unless you really know what you're doing of course...

However, if you are driving in the mountains, or on curved roads, it is better to drive with a "pulling" engine. In this case, I also keep up the revs to keep control. When decenting in a relaxed way, I choose a gear that allows the engine break to do all the breaking work. Yes, changing to the right gear at different slopes wears out your clutch. But in this case you have no other option. You don't want to overheat your brakes and have no break at all. If steep enough, you don't use any fuel at all. For hair pins etc. you'd need to use the normal break for extra decelleration. If you decent in a more sporty way, I'd suggest to keep the revs slighly up so that you have optimal control in curves.

I guess everyone already knows, but if not, remember to apply approximately 80% of the breaking force to the front and 20% to the rear. Should you have ABS, then if you apply the front brake only, your bike's electronics will determine - depending on circumstances - how much force to apply on what tire. If you use the rear brake as well, the system is "shut off" and you may control the forces yourself. For sportier driving... Anyways, I mostly use front brake only. Rear brake only in heavy traffic (splitting lanes), "cheating" in downhill hairpins, and extra-ordinary exercises (tight U-turn).

Wow, what a story. Good luck and enjoy the ride!