Moment of destiny...

[iowabeakster]

I had been getting increasingly worried about my future with my R1150R. Every new report of the clutch spline failure would bring on the unease.

I really LOVE this bike, I really, really do... I want to ride it for many, many more years. I am near the point that other people had worn out their stock shocks. I had looked forward to improving the ride (even above the excellent ride that the stock shocks provided). But, I was afraid to invest the substantial amount of cash into a bike that might end up as a trade-in on a used Honda VFR800... and doing that after a really expensive repair. That is... I wondered if I had one of those BMW's that consumed its own clutch splines.

So an additional task was added to my 24K mile service... exploratory surgery. I am not a person who "enjoys" wrenching in the garage. Really... I am not. It's not awful like going to the shopping mall, but I do consider vehicle maintenance to be "work". I'd rather be recreating.

On the other hand, I absolutely HATE wasting my money to pay somebody to do basic maintenance tasks... especially when I know that I would take more care. I also understand the limitations of my experience and abilities. I'm not going to dive in if I don't know what I'm doing. I'll call in a pro, without hesitation.

I also generously use the philosophy: If it ain't broke... don't fix it.

I was pushing at the edges of my comfort bubble, with this exploratory investigation.

Anyway, so far (fingers crossed), it has been pretty easy. I've started to put it all back together already. I've had no major difficulties... no problems...

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The prognosis is (drum roll please)... the bike is healthy.... I"M KEEPING MY R1150R FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.


Here're some pics...

Clutch slave and its housing were beautiful... no mess... no leaky...




Here's the rear half of the bike pulled back to expose clutch and input shaft splines


close-ups



I knew people had talked about how small the input shaft was... I was still surprised... it is really tiny. I looked...cleaned...looked...cleaned...looked (ok, you get the point), I could see no evidence of wear at all.

the big pile 'o bike parts that need to go back together


the bolts to hold those parts on


I was planning to order some shocks, now that I've done the inspection/lube. NO WAY!!! I need to get that thing back together... I want to be riding it as soon as I can... like in a day or two at most. My old ones will be fine till next riding season... time is running out on this one.

[sjbmw]

That is great news, congrats.

I have to admit, this man "knows his limitations" and that one pic put me in a state of shock if it were my bike!
(You would find me 3 years later mumbling and scratching my head at that jigsaw puzzle. People would call me "Rain Man".)

I know what you mean when you "love your bike". My recent travails got me looking around, and I can't find one I love more. The new BMW bikes looks (and price tags) scare me away. I am not a fan of the new origami styling.

The R1200R is a possible, but it's a lot like my bike, and that is a 15k expense (with a loan) to get the right one, dammit, I OWN my bike now. Payments are out of the question, I have no more of them on any vehicle.

Until the dust settles and the "phantom failures" stop, I would get an used BMW preferably older if the bottom falls out on mine. (Perhaps a 96-98 K1100RS). The 2003-04 K1200GT's have the same FD's mine does, no thanks.



PS: Every time I read your sig I can't get Appolonia out of my head

[macx]

Isn't that a beautiful sight?! Those nice splines in great condition!
Thank goodness mine were that way, too. BTW - you are going
to lube them with Honda Moly 60, right? Nod your head "yes".

I just swapped trans in mine - I had bought what was advertised as
an RTP trans, was after the lower 1st & 6th gears. On the road first
time today, quickly discovered it is NOT the RTP trans with the low
1 & 6!!

I did find that my clutch was just on the verge, so replaced it. Am laid
off so found a reline job for $50 less. Did a good job, turned it around
quickly. Also my slave was leaking, so used the one that came with
that non-RTP RTP trans. The rear swing arm bearings had started
going bad, I'm no Yvonne DuHamel by any stretch but even I could
feel the back wheel starting to wander on occasion. I've got the
rubber chicken bushings, but have plans for a different ratio final drive
once I get the darn driving test over with - with what I thought was
going to be my much lower 1st gear in the new trans. So just tightened
the bearings up, even tho feeling a little roughness in them, waiting
for the replacement FD to go in (higher ratio) after I take my driving
test. Now, who knows? Got to find a trans first.

What a cast iron beach bleeding that clutch slave, tho!!! I would MOST
highly recommend hooking it up and bleeding it before you install it.
That way you can tilt it a bunch of different ways to get the air to rise
up out of the bleed port in the back right side of the cyl cavity, and
even hold the whole mess up as much higher than the master cyl as
the hose allows to speed up getting trapped air out of that darn banjo
bolt / fitting at the mstr cyl. And tilt the bars so that banjo fitting is
as much on the high side of the mstr cyl as possible.

See my recent post about all the trouble I had, and some of the ultimately
very good / successful suggestions from other folks who've been thru that before.

Next time I tackle this, as soon as I can lay hands on a good low gear
trans, I WILL have a jack / stand to raise the bike up!! Already got the plans drawn up to make one myself. The hardest thing at my age is getting up off the floor 100 times a day!

So now am looking hi and lo for a real RTP or GS Adv trans.
Then - guess what - to do all over again! :-(

[sweatmark]

Those are beautiful splines!

Thanks for making this topic happen, you made my day.

So I suppose a few more of us will have to check... nice winter weekend project for rainy Oregon.

[iowabeakster]

I am really happy about the way those splines look. (big sigh of relief)

Yes, Honda Moly 60 was used.

A couple of thoughts about this inspection/lube job. I was worried about the ABS system, in particular, the two rigid brake lines that are on the right side of the engine. They were no problem at all. The brake lines do not need to disconnected in any way.

But, the ABS system was a hassle regarding something else....

The top of the transmission has two cylindrical rubber mounts with metal bolts sticking out on the top and bottom of them. They screw down into the transmission and attach to battery tray with two nuts (the rubber cylinders go in between the transmission and battery tray). So, it would be easy enough just to remove those two nuts on the battery tray and remove it...right?

NO! The ABS unit ALSO mounts to the battery tray. There are two more nuts holding the battery tray underneath the ABS unit. So, the battery tray cannot be removed without removing the ABS unit first. I didn't want to remove the ABS unit. I had difficulty trying to loosen the rubber cylinders also (didn't want to damage them). So (after removing two nuts that are under the battery section of the battery tray), I needed to GENTLY bend the battery tray up enough, just far enough to get the posts out the bottom of the tray. Then, I could pull the transmission back. All the while, being careful of the main electric ground cables that need be lifted over the rubber cylinder and bolt, as the transmission was pulled back. That was the worst part.

And a shout-out to Cyclerob who gave me some good advice and encouragement via PMs. He also gave me his phone number in case I needed direct support. It was a comfort to know he had my back.

[Xdot]

I also generously use the philosophy: If it ain't broke... don't fix it.

I was pushing at the edges of my comfort bubble, with this exploratory investigation.

I use this same philosophy so have been avoiding this procedure. Right now it runs great. If I find bad splines I'll just be looking to sell because from all I've read there is NO cure. I won't even be able to enjoy riding it anymore and be thinking only how I can get my money out of it. I guess that's a real pucker moment when you separate the tranny from the motor and get your first look at those splines... Thanks for sharing it with us.

-john

[wncbmw]

iowabeasker - glad to see the clean bill of health! Nice job! Not sure I have the nerve to do that.

For the rest of us - while the clutch spline issue is certainly out there, it is almost certainly in much fewer numbers than the internet makes it seem! Just ride it!

[boxermania]

iowabeakster

Very nice, the first thing I saw is that you need a rear tire!!!!, but I digress.

Based on your pics you'll have a sound bike for a long time to come.

I looked closely at the clutch disc and the input shaft splines.....they are outstanding, but something on the disc caught my eye and I had to go back to my post on the subject to look at the disc I was provided with.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13563&start=0

It appears that the one used as the basis for my analysis had the center hub machine finished, whereas yours doesn't have any machine marks whatsoever. This once again reinforces my thought that BMW had been using different suppliers with little QA/QC and once the failures started surfacing they did what is common in the business....deny, deny, deny, correct the issue on the newer models and move on.

Ride on brother......

[iowabeakster]

Boxermania,

At first, I thought that you were correct... when looking at the picture above, and the one in your analysis thread. They must have used different clutch discs (or at least the hubs)!!! Those sneaky BMW people...

But, Mine does have machining grooves also. They are more easily visible on some larger photos that I did not post. I believe that the parts were not changed.

My photos are actually pretty blurry. It's the blurriness that hides the machining grooves. I don't have a real macro lens for close-ups. So, I was shooting with a 105mm lens from a distance, and then the close-ups were cropped. And, it was very dark. Consequently, they were quite long exposures... hence the blurry pictures. I could see with my headlamp, that the splines were good... the pictures were just to post here, for you guys. Sorry for the lousy quality.

[sweatmark]

Hey guys - remind me: what's the direction of motor rotation, eg. if your thumb is pointed towards front of bike, along longitudinal axis of crankshaft... left- or right-handed?

[CycleRob]

remind me: what's the direction of motor rotation?

Looking directly at the front alternator drive pully, it turns Clockwise.

[rdsmith3]

Looking at that last picture confirmed my decision to leave well enough alone with my bike. I have four kids, you see, including a four year old who cannot keep his hands off anything. It is both a strength (he is curious about how things work) and a weakness (he touched a shop light the other day and almost burned his hand). He would be all over that box, and I would have no idea how to put it back together. He is my "helper" with everything I do, and he is much more interested in mechanical things than any of the other kids, so I can see him being an engineer some day.

[sjbmw]

Looking at that last picture confirmed my decision to leave well enough alone with my bike. I have four kids, you see, including a four year old who cannot keep his hands off anything. It is both a strength (he is curious about how things work) and a weakness (he touched a shop light the other day and almost burned his hand). He would be all over that box, and I would have no idea how to put it back together. He is my "helper" with everything I do, and he is much more interested in mechanical things than any of the other kids, so I can see him being an engineer some day.

Bob, I laughed out loud. It doesn't get better.
I have to text message several times a month to a 17 year old to find my stuff.

I heard Kinder Care is opening a mechanic curriculum

[Xdot]

He is my "helper" with everything I do, and he is much more interested in mechanical things than any of the other kids, so I can see him being an engineer some day.

Engineer huh? ==> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw

[wncbmw]

He is my "helper" with everything I do

Enjoy it! After my kids got old enough to 'help", I wished my father had lived long enough for me to apologize for all the times I "helped" him!

Slows production but is priceless time together.

[rdsmith3]

I gave him tools for his 3rd birthday. Here he is with a look that says, "Don't touch my pliers!"




Sorry -- didn't mean to hijack this thread. Those are nice splines.

[iowabeakster]

No apologies needed... that's a fun hijack.

Just started the bike up... no apparent problems.

The bike will be back in one piece very shortly... test ride tomorrow!