It's my turn, Final Drive rebuild.

[sjbmw]

Well, after 28k miles, I need new bearings and seals in my FD.

After returning from Hungry Mother, I put my bike in a shop for tires, and new fluids, and a FD inspection over some seepage. The leak was from a hose near the tranny, and it ran down the paralever to the tire.

But, the FD plug was loaded with metal shavings when drained. Looking at a $700+ repair, I guess it's better than 2k. (The hard part is that there is no guarantee I will have my R back for the Finger Lakes Rally, that is causing real angst.)

Hypothetical question: Since BMW has been dealing with this issue in background, will the new BMW parts be "better" than the OEM parts I got installed in the factory 2003?

Will this rebuild "fix" this issue? Anyone get new bearings and seals thousands of miles ago and have not seen this happen again?

[jm1515]

Well, after 28k miles, I need new bearings and seals in my FD....

....the FD plug was loaded with metal shavings when drained. Looking at a $700+ repair, I guess it's better than 2k. (The hard part is that there is no guarantee I will have my R back for the Finger Lakes Rally, that is causing real angst.)

Hypothetical question: Since BMW has been dealing with this issue in background, will the new BMW parts be "better" than the OEM parts I got installed in the factory 2003?

Will this rebuild "fix" this issue? Anyone get new bearings and seals thousands of miles ago and have not seen this happen again?

You may not need all the bearings...only an inspection will tell.....
And if you can take the FD off yourself and send it to a qualified indy professional, you will save $$$$$$$$.
LY I had some oil leaking into the wheel hub, but the drain magnet looked fine. I had Blackstone do an oil sample to verify this.
I had the crown wheel bearing (big bearing) replaced & shimmed, also had the hub center re-sealed to the crown wheel gear. Seems the big bearing was just on it's way out. Work was done by Dr. Cutter @ Rubber Chicken RG.
That was 7200mi ago, and all is well....
Total cost was ~300bux........

[macx]

From what I've read, if they're going to have problems that will likely surface
somewhere in the relatively early going, before i.e. 40k or so or maybe
sooner.

Just as another option to save some $ and if there's no good independent shop available (of course you could always ship it to the Rubber Chicken guy or another known good independent with good reputation I guess, which does sound like an obvious solution) a known good used one might be another option. Of course that's a crap shoot because you'd likely be buying from someone you've never laid eyes on so - - - . But I have seen used FD's available for quite a bit less than having a dealer rebuild one. If your gears happen to also be bad, then the rebuild cost goes way up (as in an extra $600+!!). There are several BMW salvage yards around the country that regularly sell on eBay, besides the occasional guy who's parting out a bike because of a wreck or engine failure or whatever. I'd trust Beemerboneyard but he most usually seems to be sold out, and of course he doesn't know the bike's history either, really. All he can do is inspect it for current signs of problems.

[boxermania]

Skirting the issue as to why the failure at such a low mileage and if the components have been upgraded by BMW, let's dwell with the nuances associated with FD bearing replacement.

First and foremost replace all bearings that have been exposed to the FD oil, bearings can't be "inspected" by the average repair shop, the bearing cage have to be carefully cut and both the balls and races inspected under high magnification. Bearing failure evaluation is one of the things I get involved with.

Likewise, cleanliness, installation, shimming and fitting are critical to the durability of the repair. That being said I would recommend the following approach:

1) Find out from your dealer about the FD issue and if the parts have been updated. Also find out how many times they have performed the repair!!!!
2) Ask of whoever performs the repair to save the old bearings for you and get the number for the new bearings as well.
3) If you get the bearings to me I'll cut them up and do an analysis to share with the forum.

I’ve heard about Rubber Chicken, but have never dealt with them....I would imagine that someone with racing experience would be far more knowledgeable on bearing issues than a typical repair shop. You might want to talk to them and get their opinion.

[sjbmw]

bm,

Thanks.

I have the utmost faith in the mechanic, he's been working on BMW's bikes since the early 1970's. He used to own a BMW/Duc dealership near my house when I was a tot playing Little League baseball. RK is a one of the top BMW mechanics around these parts. The crew is from the parts/service dept of the closed DiSimone BMW dealership they opened up another service shop.


This is the 4th time the shop has had to do this recently that's why I'm waiting for parts. The FD issue is real, and it's my hope that BMW, although will not release detailed info on this issue, went to the engineering team with all the data over the past years, and uncovered the problem, and at least upgraded their parts manufacturing process to address it for those taking the hit on these repairs. It's the least they could do.

I will take your advice and get the old parts and the details on the new parts.

Thanks again.

Herb

[iowabeakster]

Sorry to hear this Herb... bummer...

Just to give you a little hope that the fix... may be a long term fix.

When I first joined the forum (2004), it seemed like the FD bearing failure was common. At that point, most everybody on the board had 02's and 03's. The bearing failure could happen to folks with relatively few miles on the bike. It seems like that those people who still have the failure, more recently, are still the 02 and 03 models. For example yourself, Rob, and Vann... are the more recent ones, that I remember.

I remember that BMW switched bearings. There was a lot of chatter about it, when I joined the board. They switched from a 17 ball bearing to a 19 ball bearing back to a 17 ball bearing, again. Maybe it went 19-17-19...(whatever). They did experiment with different bearings, is what is important.

I can't recall any of the 04's and later years having the problem. I'm not saying none have happened, but I just don't remember any... I've been looking for them (my bike is an 04). So, I think that they may have found a better bearing for the job.

and a big +1 on having it done by people who are good at what they are doing.

best of luck...

[Buckster]

I was checking my rear tire for play the other day and noticed not even a 1/16" play only when my hands were on the 12 and 6 position on the tire. I was assuming this was due to the bearing going bad which I assumed I would replace with the JL Paralever bushing upgrade kit.
http://www.rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html
I thought this would be something I could do. I do MOST of my regular maintenence. Is this a job for the pro mechanic? Also...I always thought that a final drive failure had more to do with the gears failing, not the bearing. Is this a FD failure or just a bearing failure??

[rdsmith3]

sorry to hear about this problem.

I'm still crossing my fingers.

[Boxer]

The original problems with the large crown wheel bearing failing was a result of the CAGE failing. By reducing the number of the bearings they apparently went to a more robust cage. But then I heard later that they went back to the original number of bearings. Then I lost interest. Rob helped me replace mine before it became a problem, but with metal shavings showing up, I would not just replace the big one. I'd get it all done.

[wncbmw]

Herb - sorry to hear about the problem. Like when it happened to me, it seems like you caught it before it toasted the entire FD.

Mine went south, ironically on the Hungry Mother ride 2 years ago, and I had the dealer do it, with the hope that the parts had been improved. I was told that a inspection showed all the other parts were fine.

At the moment, almost 12,000 miles later, all is still good!

Hope you get it back in time for the rally.

[iowabeakster]

Buckster,

You are getting two different bearings confused.

Most final drive "failures" do not involve gear failure at all. That would be rare... and expensive. When the big bearing starts to go: metal flakes are usually seen on the drain plug, or play at the wheel is detected, or the handling starts getting squirrely. At that point, it still can be fixed before the gears would be damaged.

Herb's problem is the big bearing... it could be called the "wheel bearing"... but that technically is not correct. Shimming the final drive is a precision job. Get a professional!!

(pictures from Cyclerob's post)

If you go inside the final drive...


You can get to the big bearing...




The bearing that can be replaced with the bushing is the "final drive pivot bearing". That's the bearing that FD pivots on the swingarm as the suspension moves through its range of travel. Red arrow below... You can probably DIY on this job. I've never done it, it does not seem like an "easy" job, more like and " advanced intermediate" job (at least to me, when I read the instructions a while ago). If you are confident, you probably can do it.




I've heard the way to tell what bearing has play...it to check the wheel play with the rear brake locked up. If it has play with the brake locked up...it is the "pivot bearing". If the locked-up brake stops the play...it is the big bearing inside the final drive.

[Buckster]

Thanks for the info,IB....I will check it out.

[iowabeakster]

I think it will by my turn next.

After putting the bike together (after the spline inspection), I rode it for about 10 miles.

I got home and drained my final drive, and saw about 3 tiny (very tiny) shiny metal flakes on the drain plug . NOOOOOOOO, this can't be real. The wheel has no play and it turns completely smoothly.

I'm now going to be very closely monitoring... crap...

[Ossiary]

Hi all, yep, I've just had to have all the bearings in my final drive replaced after a failure of the main bearing. There were metal shavings everywhere and I figured it's just safer to replace it all "while I'm in there" than have to go through the whole procedure again. Now going to have a look at the gearbox lube after seeing the state of the final drive oil when I drained it!

[sjbmw]

Update:

I got my bike back 12 hours before I had to leave for the Finger Lakes Rally. I was happy about that.
It's the rally I enjoy the most-est.

Front and rear bearings and seals replaced.
(Along with 2 new Z6's, and all new fluids.)

The bike is performing fine and I shipped my old bearings to boxermania for some forensics.

The mechanic that worked on my bike gave this post-mortem:

The front bearing was not properly shimmed at the factory at assembly time, and over time, this misalignment wore pieces of metal into the gear oil, and affected the rear bearing as well. This is in line with the experts that have analyzed this problem, who have pointed the finger at factory assembly and not the metallurgy of parts.

The new front bearing shims were double checked at install time and this should be the end of my issue.
(Till my clutch splines go right?)

Total Cost for FD repairs: Approx $550.

As challey says, it could have been worse, it could have gone south up on Rt 16 at Hungry Mother.


Herb

[wncbmw]

it could have gone south up on Rt 16 at Hungry Mother.

Which is exactly where mine went!

Of course, I limped it on home before checking it out and confirming what I suspected.

Glad you got the bike back in time for your trip Herb! Sounds like you did OK on the bill. Mine was about $450. Less than replacement chains and sprockets on a chain drive with that mileage.

And no problems since, 3 years and 12,000 miles later.

[boxermania]

Just got back from my visit with the family and the inlaws and had a care package from Herb waiting for me. He was kind enough to ship me the failed FD bearings so I can perform root cause failure analysis.

I had a preliminary chat with the shop that repaired the FD and will call on them again to get to the issue with the shims and the stack height, my first impression is that the folks there are thorough and knowledgeable.

I'll get on it......

[aretoo]

I have an '02 with 27,000 on it.

It's going to be my time soon, I'm sure.

Thinking of preemptively getting mine rebuilt.

Where are you all sending them?

SXSW is coming up soon and I will be working way to much to be able to ride which means the perfect time.

[6216]

I bought my 02 R1150R used in 09 with 30K on it. I took off the stock 31/11 FD and installed a 32/11. Hopefully if I ever have a problem I will just switch FD's.